Ozbow

I'm specifically talking about hunting in cold climates, eg, hunting sambar in the Victorian Alps in September for example. Which is best, wool or polar fleece? What do you wear and why?

Personally, I like polar fleece. It's very comfortable. It makes almost no noise at all when moving through thick scrub. It only holds a very small percentage of the weight of the garment in water when wet and then wrung out. It's very lightweight compared to wool and best of all, it doesn't scratch your skin, or end up stinking like an old sheep after a bit of rain.

Wool garments are supposed to keep you warm even when they're wet, which is a good advantage, if it's true. Wool is also very safe around open fires, as it doesn't burst into flames like many synthetic materials.

Some polar fleece clothing offers a feature called DWR (durably water resistant), namely 'Ridgeline' of New Zealand. I have a few items made of this material and it certainly works very well. They will get wet, but it never soaks through to your skin. I've owned mine for many years and they're still very water resistant. I always pack a top quality Goretex raincoat as well, just in case.

I've noticed that wool rates very highly on US forum sites, as the best material, but I'm still not convinced that it's any better than good quality polar fleece. What do you reckon?

Mick

Mick, from experience in Great Britain where things can be well below freezing especially with over-nighters and predawn starts I would say wool and natural fibres every time. I used to camp out and hunt on moors and mountains. I found the best mix was silk/cotton thin undergarments and thin wool covered by oiled wool. It was always the thin layers that did the job and however many layers of synthetics I wore they never equaled the natural fibres. I have tried some of the 'thermal' gear from people like Damart though and the best stuff is pretty good. The main quality was lightness so I could wear it outside all day when working on roofs in winter as a builder, under a thin woolen roll-neck pullover under a thick woolen over jumper.
You also need a wind breaking layer. Oiled cotton like japara is good but noisy, or best of all I think, a thin leather which if well treated is strong and noiseless and more flexible.
Another very important factor was the tuck-in! Tuck your vest in your pants and wear a roll-neck and balaclava and seal the ankles too with long socks over thin under-socks with some sort of spats or tied bottom trousers - you lose a lot less heat. A thin 'beanie' on top works wonders.
Combinations like this kept me warm in long winters working outside on farms on tractors without cabs, when building as before mentioned and when motorcycling and hunting and fishing in freezing streams. I would be warm as toast all day yet I feel the cold badly. Natural fibres also wick the sweat away from you so you don't shiver.
It is also true about wool when wet, not so much that it keeps you warm if you are immersed but it is true that it dries on you without cooling you. Stinks like an old dog however.
Having said that, the most modern synthetic thermal materials may be improved over the polar fleece I have worn which used to mat down and feel cold if slept in.
Nimrod would probably know of any good modern gear.
I have been told of, but have not tried, the possum mixes. Try this link for thermal silk, possum and so-on. http://www.nznature.co.nz/
I have purchased from them with no problems.
Don't forget the porridge and muesli bars!

I'd support the "warm when wet" claim. I've got a pair of felted wool mittens that I used to use in the high country in winter. Once squeezed a teacup full of water out of them, but the hands were still warm - about the only part of me that was!

Alan

We are continually cold ish and wet in Katoomba.
I normally wear a tee shirt, shorts with a brown Dry as a Bone vest.
If I keep my body trunk warm and it does no matter the down pour, I am a happy chappy.
I can still wear the vest in tropical high temperatures.
Good investment.

Kevin

Jape

Thanks for your comments. I suppose I don't really know what real cold is, having been born and raised in a fairly mild climate. Your experiences in the British winter would certainly be quite severe.

I realise that polar fleece, by itself, is a very poor performer in cold windy conditions. For some reason, a cold wind will go straight through the thickest polar fleece. You really need some sort of windproof outer garmet in cold windy conditions when you're wearing polar fleece.

Most times when I'm hunting, I quickly become overheated when I wear anything that's too warm. For this reason, I don't mind a certain lack of thermal retention efficiency in my hunting clothing. I can quickly put on my Gortex jacket if the weather turns nasty, protecting me from both the wind and the rain.

I'll take your advice on board.


Alan

Thanks for relating your experiences regarding the ability of wool to work, even when wet.


Kevin

I've been looking at those 'Dry as a Bone' vests. I saw a bloke wearing one on a very wet and windy competition day recently and it looked as though it was doing the job. I also like the fact that your arms are left unburdened with bulky clothing, as thick floppy arms on raincoats and heavy jackets always seem to snag on your bow's string. I will own one soon, I think.


Mick

plolar fleace for me it's lighter and dry's faster only problem is it dont last as good as wool
Flyne

Hi Mick, A winter deer hunting mate up here swears by wool clothing, he raids the op shops for old Tweed jackets with a suitable breakup pattern and old wool army pants from the surplus stores.
A tip I read was to take layers of wilst walking strenuously to avoid making clothing wet through perspiration and then putting them back on when you return to stalking. Steve

Yup, and a good old-fashioned tweed jacket with the sleeves cut off makes a better 'weskitt' than any Drizabone! I found one recently in the local Op shop for just $15, too small for me though so I had to let it go. It was a proper Harris tweed in mottled greens and browns and would have cost $600 new. Much underestimated in Aus. as the weather doesn't usually call for such warm gear. All the rich huntin' 'n fishin' nobs in England buy them and they usually get quality gear. The gamekeepers wear them too and they aren't stupid or fashionistas. The old fashioned ones are best as they are cut fuller with less waist and the collars when folded back meet at the chin. They last a lifetime, literally.

Barbour = says it all

I've always tended to closely watch the gear that bushwalkers and their ilk use. Their needs are similar to ours and I believe the technology can offer us some advantages.

My main interests are lightness, comfort, reliability and safety. Modern synthetic materials are designed to make the activity of bushwalking/mountain climbing/canoeing more pleasant for the wearers. Modern technology will also usually offer a greater margin of safety in adverse conditions than older technology. Not always, but I believe it to be generally true. Some modern materials aren't suitable for hunting as they simply make too much noise, but by the same token, many are ideal for hunters.

Lets face it, Goretex raincoats are very hard to beat. They offer complete protection from severe wind and rain and yet they allow our skin to 'breathe' and reduce the bugbear of all older rainwear, over sweating.

I own quite a few woolen garmets, some designed specifically for hunting, but these garmets really are a bother to wear. They're heavy and they scratch my skin to the point where I'd simply rather leave them at home.

I can slip on my super comfortable and lightweight polar fleece garments and I feel as though I can hunt all day long. When I have my Goretex 'Cats and dogs' raincoat packed, I feel as though I'm equipped for anything the weather can throw at me.

I must admit, my confidence in modern materials has been somewhat shaken after reading some of the replies so far in this thread, but not by a large enough margin for me to relegate them to my bottom draw forever.

Mick

Well you win the debate Mick, because it is your choice! And it is all about choice and comfort I think. Much comes down to habit and personal experience and unless you are caught out overnight away from camp in a really bad weather change, Australia doesn't need the extra safety of oiled wool and thermal underwear. But a couple of people die every year in the bush even so.
I came across a bloke dead in his car once on the high moors in Wales in the '70s. One day and night caught in a bad blizzard did him in and he was wearing synthetic clothes and thin shoes, ran off the road into a drift then out of petrol. He was salesman the cops said, he froze in his sleep poor sod. They reckon it happened more often than people realised (no mobile phones then), people just don't realise how tough nature can be, too insulated by their cars. I was trapped in the same storm and survived comfortably because I had good gear on, food, a wool blanket and a couple of candles always with me which were enough to stop the freeze, and I had chains for the wheels too. I still carry a blanket and spare boots everywhere, even in Aus. And water even though Victoria isn't exactly the desert.

Hi Mick

Mick Smith wrote:Lets face it, Goretex raincoats are very hard to beat. They offer complete protection from severe wind and rain and yet they allow our skin to 'breathe' and reduce the bugbear of all older rainwear, over sweating.

I use to be a fan of Goretex. However, it has an issue in that dust will clog it. "Older rainwear" is excellent in my opinion - you just need to get stuff that is well designed and made. And that can be difficult as so much stuff is cheap, shoddy and nasty. Back in the dim dark ages when I use to ride an Auto Cycle I had a few lessons about what is good and what is not so good - thus my appreciation for Barbour gear. And my eternal cursing for clothing manufacturers who put un-proofed seems in crutch areas.

Mick Smith wrote:I can slip on my super comfortable and lightweight polar fleece garments and I feel as though I can hunt all day long.

That is the best thing about modern gear - weight. In essence - for me - it is all about buying appropriate gear. As it always is. Next year it looks as if I am going for a walk - with several hundred k ahead of me I can guarantee the gear will be chosen very carefully.

On the weekend I went fishing and I took my new hat - it's a Columbia fishing hat. After one day of use I wondered why I had put off buying one fo so long. Like all Columbia Clothing it is just made to do the job so well - the downside is that in Aus' it is ridiculously overpriced.

Just to finish off - there is Polar Fleece and there "Polar Fleece". I have some stuff that is amazingly warm - aactaullu a Columbia piece, some stuff that is pretty good Aust' made and some stuff that is okay for around the house in atumn in Brisbane. Once again it is a reflection of their price and design.

I use to be a wool bushwalker but now Polar Fleece/ Polartec is well established and proven I have several jumpers and vests. I always buy them with a full lenght zipper as I tend to be a hot person ( no responses needed) and undoing a zipper is just another part of the layering concept. As has already suggested they do repel water to some degree and they dry fast unfortunately wool does not and you smell and feel like a shaggy dog till in dries. For added warmth layering works really well as per my Dunolly experience( two polartecs). The other thing I like with Polartec is the 100,200,300 grading which allows me to look at the warmth factor. A 200 works well for me, yes melbourne does not require the protection that Jape and others refer to thank God.
As to Goretex I'm with Mick I bought a coat 20+ plus years ago I have reproofed it twice it is now ready to be retired, thats good service. I just can't bring myself to buy another the prices being asked are over the top ( but if it lasts 20 years )
TonyJ

And water even though Victoria isn't exactly the desert.[/quote]

Jape the west /northwest of victoria is classed as desert with less than 10 in of rain a year and thats in good years.I find the most important things to wear is good woolen socks and a good beanie in winter, i find it dosnt matter what you wear if your feet are cold so are you .

...nev..

not comming from a strictly hunting perspective, i find that polar fleece is more than adequate, im a carpenter from canberra, and it gets nice and cold here in the mornings,

i find wool becomes annoying as you work, or do any activity, for me the clothing has to be warm, but not too bulky and i find polar fleece is great for that,

i agree nev, always thick socks and sometimes gloves, if your hands and feet are cold, the rest of you will suffer

Hi mick, I've just been testing out the hunters pack from ridgeline[god bless fathers day] found it to be very good as a wind/rain stopper while keeping sweat away from the body as well [trousers,shirt, jacket and beanie for169.95] not bad value and doesn't smell or get heavy when wet regards Ian

i was always a fan of the belstaff trail master wax cotton jackets.when i was riding motorcycles all year round.good four pockets,belt.you could buckle the neck up to stop the draft.and if you manage to rip a hole you can repair it and re-wax.still got a pair of over trousers.3 presstuds down the leg so they dont flap about and no zips to get stuck and have to replace.open face helmet flying goggles.ahh they were the days

The Newzealand made Swandri bush shirt is the best in my opinion. I have never been cold or wet in the jacket. Not as pretty as some of these new camo jackets but far superior.
I also have a cheap set of camo polar fleece that I use for coldish weather the pants and jacket cost me $80.00 for the lot at Aussie Disposals.

Stephen

I've noticed a few old 'sages' wearing those Swandri shirts when deer hunting in colder weather, so there's no doubt that they're effective. They would be nice and quiet too.

The polar fleece jacket to which you're referring wouldn't be the one you were wearing in the cool of the mornings at the LB100 would it? I've got one just the same, which I also came from Aussie Disposals. It was a father's day gift from one of my kids.

It seems we're fairly split between the wool wearers and the polar fleece wearers. Maybe neither one of them is superior to the other, maybe it's more a case of one is better under some circumstances and vise versa, I don't know.

Mick

Hi Mick, I read a Fred Asbell article since you posted this and it states that Wool produces heat when wet??? Steve

Born in New Zealands southern alps. Wool always.

www.swanndri.co.nz

Yes Mick thats the one.

Just one more thing on the benefit of wool.
This morning I had to retrieve an arrow from in the box thorn and I just walked through between the bushes and not one thorn came through the swandri bush shirt.

I agrre about wool and they look great, almost medieval - but $200 is a bit much for a shirt for me!