Moron

[TomMcDonald]

I believe him when he says he didnt know their protected...I didnt know acouple months back. Theres so many of them you would think their not.

Dylan

In my view, that has nothing to do with the fact that the animal has a field tipped arrow through its snout. A goat or fox with a an arrow through its nose would be just as bad.

[longbowinfected]

anyone buying a bow has great difficulty in mastering it without help to some degree
anyone buying a bow face to face has contact with someone knowledgeable to a degree
there are lots of places to check things out formally and informally
to say you did not know automatically prooves negligence, lack of care/caution
the defence actually is likely to greatly assist with a finding against him.
having said that I would like dollar for the amount of bs i have seen and heard during sales to inexperienced novices in some archery stores and the visible advice given during ebay transactions [bows strung wrong way, bows shot wrong hand, comments in good condition for fourty year old bows left stung up and not shot etc]
Every bow shop should advise every customer about where the person can get training.
I am sure that the really good sales points do this but I have seen kids buy a compound with broadheads whilst describing how they lost their last set of broadheads in the back yard shooting range next to the neighbours fence.
Isn't a broadhead effectively a knife on a stick and don't the knife regulations come into play?

Kevin

[TEX]

It's all about education.
The Government should produce a flier which is handed out by the suppliers with every hunting related product which is sold.
Heaps of people have no idea on the laws regarding hunting
eg:
arrow heads
protected species
kill zones
just to name a few.

[TEX]

I think the media have a lot to answer for when they paste these things all over the papers and TV.
They go straight for the Big Evil Bowhunter story first. What if the guy charged was uninformed on the laws involved. Maybe he had no idea on the type of arrow to use or where to aim. No the media want to sell a story first with no regards towards all the law abiding hunters which pride themselves on doing the right thing when it comes to our sport. Instead of being so focused on the poor roo why not publish the laws and publish a story covering the do's and don'ts regarding this topic.
No again not so dramatic besides the general public might miss a huge story that's more important like how Mel Gib@#ns divorce is going.
The big problem with this story is yes the roo was injured. But so are so many roo's and other native wildlife on our roads every day but the story there is not so dramatic. How many of these so called law abiding citizens stop to check when they hit an animal. I wonder.
Maybe we should get together and organize a public education plan regarding proper bow hunting practices.
Or maybe the media wouldn't be interested in a constructive move towards bowhunting. Sorry sir but the ratings are just not there for such a story Mel's divorce is so much better for our sales.
Who Knows

[Dennis La Varenne]

DylanK and Tex,

There is no legal defence of not knowing the law. All the laws are published in easily accessible documents either on the internet or government bookshops.

The legal principle of 'what would the reasonable man do under the circumstances' would expect that before undertaking any activity which was new to him, particularly involving equipment which could be dangerous or harmful, he would ascertain the applicable laws pertaining to that activity. He would have very little prospect of defending himself with the excuse that he presumed it was OK to shoot anything with his bow and arrows.

Under the Victorian act, this bloke faces a maximum penalty of approximately $12,000 fine or 6 months imprisonment, or if the charge of aggravated cruelty is proven, ie. that the animal died as a result of the cruel act or was seriously or permanently diabled, he could face a maximum penalty of $24,000 or 2 years imprisonment.

I can look up the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act 1984 in less than 5 minutes on the Legislation Victoria website. So can he. I can also look up the websites of the relevant Government authorities information centres to ask the relevant question just as easily. I could also ask the dealer at the shop where I purchased a bow or any shop dealing in hunting of any kind and get a reliable answer in regard to kangaroos.

The correct information on shooting kangaroos is both widespread and easily obtainable if you take the reasonable steps of just enquiring. It has a lot to do with common sense and responsibility for one's actions.

Dennis La Varenne

[TEX]

Yes that is correct but lets look at the fact that anyone can go into a shop purchase a bow and arrows without any questions or EDUCATION and go out hunting without knowing the law. To some people this looks like you can do what you want when you buy one. I can go into a shop tomorrow and buy a compound bow which is hanging on the same wall as the tennis rackets. This can give the idea to some people that it is just a play thing. I have also known people who where completely surprised when I told them that I hunted with a bow and that how powerful they are. They have this idea that a bow and arrow is a toy. So what I am getting at is that if people can buy a tennis racket and go play with it without any coaching or assistance and because your not playing in the Australian open then why would they need to look up the rules to have fun. There for a person with the same mind set towards a bow would most likely not look up the rules as well.

Now before you get all defensive I am not saying that the guy who shot the roo is right. He is not.
I am just saying there are people out there who don't even read the instructions on how to use a blender let alone a bow.

[longbowinfected]

we are all agreed on the fact that the guy is an idiot, did the wrong thing and has no defense.
The rest is really discussion about how it can go pear shaped and the consensus from what I see is a lack of common sense and effort on the part of the said idiot applied to reason this out and/or check the facts.
The hard parts are infecting people who are idiots with commonsense and goodwill........probably not going to happen.
The other scary thing is that these idiots have the right to vote even though they demonstrate a disitinct inability to be able to think and act appropriately. Real cave man Neanderthal stuff.
The really good news is that we all condemn the idiot.

Kevin

[Dennis La Varenne]

Tex,

I DO take your point about how it can easily happen, etc. and I lay part of the blame for the principal archery organizations not making themselves more open to the public on a casual basis or to run publicly available archery training. I am constantly astounded at how many people DON'T know that archery clubs of any kind even exist.

To minimise the chances of misuse of bows becoming a public safety/cruelty issue, our archery organizations really should take a pro-active position and open themselves up to public access as training facilities as a public self-funding service.

For instance, my old club of Diamond Valley Archers here in Victoria ran publicly open basic archery training courses for years and made quite a bit of money out of it at very reasonable prices. There wasn't the slightest inference or pressure to get participants to become members, or that the training courses were open to prospective members only. They were open to everyone, but the advantages and cost of becoming a member were also made clear. Most didn't join, but large numbers of people went away with a much better social attitude toward bows and arrows and their proper use.

That open-minded attitude which DVA had toward the non-club archery public needs to become more widespread among the principal organizations.

Recently, I have heard that here in Victoria (not substantiated yet) that SSAA has, or soon will open their firing ranges to archery practice to anyone who wishes to attend for a casual shoot. I do not have any information about how SSAA is going to cater for archery and to what extent, but it opens the possibility that SSAA members who are also ABA or AAA members may not bother to stay with these latter organizations and go with the much, much cheaper option of using the SSAA ranges.

Inevitably, like all specialist sub-groups in SSAA, they will start to develop their own competitions and the like - a significant potential threat to the two archery principals - and . . . SSAA allows casual non-members equal access to their ranges for a moderately higher range fee on a day by day basis.

SSAA is/will be doing what the principal archery organizations and their affiliated clubs are not doing, operating as they do on a 'closed shop' principle, ignoring a potential financial benefit to themselves as well as advertising their existence and the availability of proper training for anyone interested.

But, back to the original topic, I never thought at any stage you were defending his behaviour, but, however you look at it, the culprit has no credible legal defence for not knowing the law or taking reasonable steps to find it out.

But, as Kevin just posted above, I think we may be starting to discuss this matter in circles now.

Dennis La Varenne

[Roadie]

Evening All, What are the ODDS that this Moron will not serve anytime or receive the substantial penalty for his actions.
His defence will come up with all the excusses, lame as always. He did an act of crultey on an animal, he should be punished, but I bet he dosn't get much of a penalty. Cheers Roadie.

[TEX]

No worries Dennis I know what you mean.

Yes we should move on from the moron and just hope it all blows off.
As long as we do the right things thats all we can do.

Reg Tex

[Dennis La Varenne]

Yes TEX,

We all get a bit angry at the constant public media insinuation that we are dangerous and untrustworthy which inevitably comes our way in these cases. It might help our cause if our organizations cried very loudly and publicly for the full effect of the law to fall on this kind of person like the firearms people do nowadays. Unhappily, our people always seem to duck for cover when this happens.

It also occurred to me that this coot will almost certainly be facing charges under Section 43 of the Victorian Wildlife Act 1975 which says -

43 Hunting, taking or destroying protected wildlife
(1) A person must not hunt, take or destroy other
protected wildlife.
Penalty: 50 penalty units or 6 months
imprisonment or both the fine and
imprisonment and an additional penalty
of 5 penalty units for every head of
wildlife in respect of which an offence
has been committed.

A penalty unit used to be $100 plus CPI, so it is probably closer to $120 or more now.

I wonder if we will ever find out the outcome of his trial. A little bit of Schadenfreude would be in order if he is convicted with a stiff penalty.

Regards,

Dennis La Varenne

[Chase N. Nocks]

I am all for some sort of safety training for crossbow owners, when they are loaded it's like having a bullet up the chamber and some of the stupid things I have seen done with crossbows even on archery ranges makes your blood go cold. How one bloke I saw was allowed out on an archery range still has me shaking my head. This is where clubs need to show some level of responsibilty as well amd make sure the user does know how to safley use their crossbow before letting them loose out on an archery range, especially if they are not know to the club...Glenn...

Problem Glen is that the clubs don't want to know, never have. At least you have to have a licence for them now so there is an induction course (M) ? class I think. But to maintain the licence you have to have hunting properties or record shooting at clubs. I think maybe a few (all) of the archery clubs need to wake up and be educated. So too bad if you'd like to own one but not hunt with one.

Back on topic...yep talk about it, dob the pricks in if you know 'em, and be loud about our discust at the gutless and stupid.

[Coach]

Back on topic...yep talk about it, dob the pricks in if you know 'em, and be loud about our discust at the gutless and stupid.

I agree ,, but one thing I have found in the Bowhunting scene ,, people are too gutless to dob the ones in that do wrong ,,, or they are mates . I remember once , I put up a post about dobbing in people that do the wrong thing ,ie, poaching , tresspassing etc , and I was astonished to see replies like , " I would rather try to educate them " And this was from some hunters that were always going on about the bad apples in our sport and how much they hate them It really is time we were outing them and shunning them , rather than talking about doing it .

[Jeffro]

does this sort of thing happen in America?they have millions of bows over there. Like a bald eagle with an arrow through its head or something.
Or is everything there huntable?

[pdccr]

I always thought america was more strict then australia. Maybe its becuase they have more huntable species. Somewhere i heard that there were more roos in australia then people.

[Coach]

does this sort of thing happen in America?they have millions of bows over there. Like a bald eagle with an arrow through its head or something.
Or is everything there huntable?

Of course everything is huntable ,, all you have to do is look at all the "Friendly Fire " they kill their own army with

[pdccr]

ouch

[hue]

all archery store here in victoria have big signs posted on their walls, stating quite clearly, that
"the hunting and killing of Australian natives is VERBOTTEN"
He knew, he just thought he'd get away with it. didn't realize, i bet, that a field tip doesn't always kill.
they'll do him bigtime, it's an animal story and we westerners put more stock in protecting our animals than in protecting our kids, more's the pity and IMHO!

Hue

[Coach]

VERBOTTEN Aye ? Thats a weird word

[Nephew]

I have always found it confounding ( this is NOT criticism, to each their own, I'm just bewildered.) that Americans seem to prefer hunting native animals to ferals. Maybe they don't have large, huntable ferals or something. I know deer can be a problem in urban areas like Atlanta, but still I don't understand why it's ALWAYS natives with American hunters. It's just me, but I'd prefer to shoot a feral cat than a native cougar chased up a tree by dogs.
Hue, no disrespect mate but I've never met anyone that would rather protect an animal than their kid, have you? If anything, I reckon we over-protect kids in modern day Australia.
Verboten? Just Deutsch for forbidden!

[Coach]

Maybe they don't have large, huntable ferals or something.

That may be it . But they do it so it is sustainable.

[hue]

I"m talking about the court system Moreton
eg - cheat on your taxes, you'll go to jail for a lot longer than a peadophile would - get my drift

[tracker]

The real solution to this problem would be to make roo's fair game.

The whole idea that you can't hunt the continents number one prey animal is a total joke!

If I want some meat or a skin why should I have to run around looking for a feral???

60,000 years of hunting and eating can't be wrong!

Sometimes I hate what euros have done to this country.. even though I'm a 100% euro trash... convict + wog + wog.... lol.

Mick.

[otis.drum]

here here tracker, roos should be fair game. plenty of them, too many infact. and they taste great. but until they are fair game we are required not to hunt them. so thats that.

for me it's more for keeping our sport alive and legal, than it is breaking the law myself. an individual who shoots a roo does more damage to bowhunting than themselves.

[pdccr]

I agree with otis, a number of us would happily hunt roos and eat them but its only becuase its against the law that we dont. This guy shouldnt get away with this as this is making it even harder for the bowhunters to get more game species and such a large and available one like roos is ideal.

A bit off topic, what animals are considered feral in america?

[jindydiver]

I agree with otis, a number of us would happily hunt roos and eat them but its only becuase its against the law that we dont. This guy shouldnt get away with this as this is making it even harder for the bowhunters to get more game species and such a large and available one like roos is ideal.

A bit off topic, what animals are considered feral in america?

They also have fallow deer, goats, pigs, all the usual suspects realy, but in a lot of places they call them "exotics" and the farmers charge money for you to hunt them. They also have things like armadillos and nutria (and wallabies) that people shoot whenever they want.

[pdccr]

Amradillos sound like pretty unfair game. I couldnt really think of anything feral, bison and elk would be fun but like moreton said, they are native to america.

[Coach]

Verboten? Just Deutsch for forbidden!

Really Moreton ? Thanks for the lesson

Perhaps I should have pointed out that it was a weird word , to have on an Australian sign

[Chase N. Nocks]

I have always found it confounding ( this is NOT criticism, to each their own, I'm just bewildered.) that Americans seem to prefer hunting native animals to ferals. Maybe they don't have large, huntable ferals or something. I know deer can be a problem in urban areas like Atlanta, but still I don't understand why it's ALWAYS natives with American hunters. It's just me, but I'd prefer to shoot a feral cat than a native cougar chased up a tree by dogs.
Hue, no disrespect mate but I've never met anyone that would rather protect an animal than their kid, have you? If anything, I reckon we over-protect kids in modern day Australia.
Verboten? Just Deutsch for forbidden!

Moreton, I think it is simply the fact that there is a greater abundance of natives than feral available to shoot and that ferals in America have not found the same opportunity to dominate ecological niches that they have in Australia. The various niches in America are exploited by a large number of grazing animals and there are also a larger variety of predator animals there than Australia.

The natives there are also substancial game animals that the Indians and Europeans have hunted and consumed since arrival as these animals are instantly recognisable from other parts of the globe, where Australian fauna was so unusual that a reluctance to see them as a food source existed and still exists. Partly for disenfranchised emotional reasons. Oddly people accept the cruelty of battery farming as long as it's invisible.

Also many American hunters may only hunt a few times a year, maybe even once and often to suppliment their freezer. They have access to public land for hunting and many stories on the hunting web sites from the US game is taken very close to home and the hunt is over when an animal has been taken. The game taken home and butchered while still pretty fresh.

Here in Oz we plan weekend trips many of us that involves 1000-2000KM round trip and quite a few of the things we shoot are dead for a few days without refrigeration and quite a few things you wouldn't want to eat except in a survival situation. Opening up and then chowing down on a pig that has been eating carrion, No Thanks!

I have no problem shooting roos if they are going to be used for meat or skins etc. I don't eat it really because I don't eat rare meat. In a camp stew with potatoes and onion..sure no worries.

[Nephew]

I"m talking about the court system Moreton
eg - cheat on your taxes, you'll go to jail for a lot longer than a peadophile would - get my drift

Oh, then I agree with you Hue. Not a Tally-Ho between us on that one, mate!

Don't get me wrong guys, I have no probs with hunting natives per se, I just wondered why I never hear of Americans hunting ferals, that's all. It may have just been something to do with media, like when they write for magazines they just don't write about ferals or something. Now I know they call them "exotics" I'll probably start noticing articles on it.
I'm not saying natives shouldn't be hunted either, just why would you NOT kill ferals if given a chance, and that I never HEAR OF Americans doing that, not that they don't.
Of course there are too many roos in some places, I can't see why you can't hunt 'em for meat and skins either.