Conservation hunting on channel ten news

[losty]

5pm tommorrow (26/11/08). Dunno if itll be a good light or bad but just a heads up.

[alaninoz]

May be something to do with the NSW Game Council. I won't be watching as I don't have a TV, but would be interested in getting some idea of what was said.

Alan

[Nephew]

Just saw it on the eleven o'clock bulletin, and it was Pro-conservation hunting I reckon! It was about the Game Council and really presented it in a positive light! The little chat afterwards mentioned some opposition, the usual suspects (Greens, RSPCA, etc) but the reporters seemed to be balanced or maybe even in favour of the hunt. We may even have a tiny chance of getting a QLD branch of the Game Council if this keeps up!

[losty]

Tidy, its what we need. Still yet to watch it for myself though.

[Nephew]

Seems channel Ten has decided to take a pro archery stance. they made a really positive reference to bowhunters in this article, and they had that story on archery clubs a few weeks back on "Totally Wild!" . They deserve praise for this, good on 'em!

[longbowinfected]

I do not think it was overly positive BUT

one of the few times I have seen a neutral view which gave all sides a go. Good on them for doing their job properly and fairly without sensationalism. Archery is still a subset but that probably best reflects the reality.

First step on a long journey, but every journey has to start with a single forward step.

Kevin

[matt61]

I caught the about half of it.My first thought is that it will be another form of control and as usual with government the first contact is always with them putting their hand your in pocket and grabbing your wallet and lightening it.

[Coach]

.My first thought is that it will be another form of control and as usual with government the first contact is always with them putting their hand your in pocket and grabbing your wallet and lightening it.

Already been done with the Game Council

[jamie]

i thought it was a very fair report given by the news and the lightening of the wallets by the game council is the best value hunting in nsw in my opinion.$60 per year for unlimited hunting is a very good price in anyones language.

[Coach]

.$60 per year for unlimited hunting is a very good price in anyones language.

How is it "unlimited"??? For a start , there is now a deer season

[longbowinfected]

The late night news was totally negative.....cut down and neg commentary/slant "green organisations are up in arms" placed on the segment by the chunky female fake silver blond rookie anchor person.......well we got a few hours before the dragon brigade waved their wands.

Considering how NSW Govt is broke money from licensing will get more expensive but then it makes it harder to take away / do away with.

Kevin

[vegie]

I did not see the news last night but I did get someone to copy it for me.

A few comments raised.
A negative story always gets more publicity. The greens have no real leg to stand on against the Game Council system and if the media said that it would make the story less intersting.
A balanced report is actually better for hunters as if it was only one sided then people think the media is biased. Remember most of the population really has no clue about hunting their opinion is shaped by the media.

As for the tax angle or goverenment lighteneing our wallets. All money raised by the sale of licenses is kept in the Game Council for its work. It is not government money or dissapearing into the government coffers.

$60 is cheap considering for it you get access to about 300 forests and over 2 million hectares of land to hunt. Plus there is a public liability insurance coverage and the Game Council is very proactive in improving hunters and shooters rights and opportunities.
I did not that the people with a negative view were from NSW, Is that becasue people inother states wish thay had a similar thing??

Deer seasons only applies to red, fallow and wapiti. This was a trade off to get the legislation through the parliment. During the closed season these species are calving so it offers the mothers and young some protection plus the stags/bucks have dropped their antlers and are in velvet so they are no good from a trophy point of view.
Hog deer have an open season for april only each year. This is in line with Victorian regs and helps prevent cross border illegal hunting. Plus it allows the deer to establish in NSW.

And finally deer are now defined as game animals under the law. they are not vermin but have a status under the law. That has to be a good thing.

Yes I am biased towards the system but only because it is the best thing that has ever happened to hunting in this country.

Daryl

[longbowinfected]

I agree with you.

The dark side had an opportunity in parliament and lost, they have had other digs and lost, now that the system is set and it pays for itself and is regulated it is very much harder to shake the foundations as long as we look after it and use it properly.

Kevin

[losty]

It was inevitable that 10,000 greenies would ring up channel ten about the game council article and so im not surprised the late night section was slanted the other way (though i didnt get to watch it). Im just glad there was the arfternoon artcle with at least some good news about hunting for the general populace.

[kerrille]

it doesn't cost me anything to shoot goats pigs and rabbits and i would like it to stay that way thankyou very much once they start charging then licensing your bows thats when they start taking things away from you just like firearms and it didn't stop people from killing each other. cos once they know who you are thave got you and take it away, for your own good of course nup once bitten twice shy I'll tell em nothin from now on.


.....nev...

[alaninoz]

I'm with Vegie and Longbowinfected on this one. Sure, I'd prefer that the licenses were free and all, but we either work with the Government or we'll be stuffed. There's too many people in the city (I'm one of them) who hear nothing about hunting except what the so-called greenies tell them, and they're all voters. The self-styled greenies and animal rights wackos make a lot of noise and if we're not in there mixing it with them they'll win by default.


Daryl:

Didn't know you dropped in here.

[Coach]

it doesn't cost me anything to shoot goats pigs and rabbits and i would like it to stay that way thankyou very much once they start charging then licensing your bows thats when they start taking things away from you just like firearms and it didn't stop people from killing each other. cos once they know who you are thave got you and take it away, for your own good of course nup once bitten twice shy I'll tell em nothin from now on.


.....nev...

Thats what I am afraid of , and I'll never pay a fee to shoot goats pigs and rabbits !

And finally deer are now defined as game animals under the law. they are not vermin but have a status under the law. That has to be a good thing.

Was this just a token law so people had to pay ?? How long before goats pigs and rabbits are "defined as game animals under the law." As for Deer, of course they are vermin , they are a Feral , introduced species !!!! And people still go out with spotlights and shoot them without a license, and always will , because this is a law that cannot be and isn't enforced
I have heard so many stories from ****** off Farmers/landowners , about how the hunters are now coming into their back blocks via a State Forest , with their little R license and poaching on their land . When they contact the GC , they have been informed that they should call the police , NOT the GC !
The whole GC thing stinks of regulation to me ! As with Anti Regulation ,,, things will follow .
Just MY opinion of course

[vegie]

some interesting feed back.

you do not need to hold a license to bowhunt any species in NSW on private land except deer. Rabbits, goats, pigs, foxes you do not need a license when hunting on private land.
you wanto be able to hunt them on public land you need a license. and to get a license you must meet a few criteria. In my expereince most hunters do not have a problem with meeting the criteria for the benifits the system offers.
work witht he governement and we can improve things or fight them and see your hunting chances decline.
The deer season was not introduced so a license could be introduced it was the deer could be properly managed. feral, pest, introduced I do not care which title you apply. They are a huge recreational resource that many of us on this site enjoy.

As for Coach and his claims of knowing people are breaking the law I suggest you report these people to the authorities as none of us want poaching to occur. The police are the main agency enpowered to enforce the act.

The Game Council is made up of 16 members. 8 of which represent hunting groups. May I assume coach and Kerrile you do not support the bowhunting representative to protect your way of life? if so what are your gripes?

Daryl

[Coach]

My gripe is the fact that since the GC came about , we did not need to pay for a license to hunt a feral pest , something that we used to do for free .
Also , since we now have these new laws , who the hell is policing them ? Not much point having laws without someone to police them , but as I stated earlier , they are laws that no one can police
Not to mention the fact that if you want a R license , you also have to belong to one of the approved hunting organizations , which you may have no desire to belong to .

[kerrille]

as coach said they are forcing you to join a club of which i have no desire to do and as i said before once they start regulating when will it stop they did the same thing with firearms .The old saying goes fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me ,I just dont believe them anymore ,it wasn't broken so why fix it , by the way I'm a Victorian living on the boarder so i hunt and fish both sides of the Murray.

[jindydiver]

Also , since we now have these new laws , who the hell is policing them ? Not much point having laws without someone to police them , but as I stated earlier , they are laws that no one can police

Your example of someone trespassing on a farmers property has nothing at all to do with the GC. The Game and Feral Animal act that the GC officers operate under does not give them the power to prosecute for trespass, that is the province of the Police.

And you are wrong that the GC is not policing it's laws, just yesterday in Queanbeyan local court 2 blokes were convicted of taking a buck on private property without permission and out of season. One was fined $1500, the other was fined $2000. Neither of them will be able to legally hunt deer anywhere in NSW now for a period of 10 years.

As for Deer, of course they are vermin , they are a Feral , introduced species !!!!

And you don't really believe deer are vermin do you? Seems an odd statement from someone who spends so much time moaning about how many deer other people are killing

[jape]

Getting back on topic and giving Coach and others a bit of time to hopefully reconsider their style, hunting rules vary from State to State as far as I can tell from an article in Archery Action Nov/Dec. It wouldn't be a bad idea at least to get some consistency as far as what we can do where. I dislike licenses and so on but bow-hunting is not only a recreation and sport, it is using a dangerous weapon. The road of regulation is open to abuse and to restriction by governments but if we stick together on forums at least, if not in organisations (which seem to be quite disorganised), then we may end up with a fishing style system. I don't think many would argue that that is too restrictive, it has increased participation, conservation and availability throughout Australia.
Let us hope and debate - and drop the acrimony as Kevin suggests.

[longbowinfected]

Jape, the sad thing is that we have 3 levels of government. The bad thing is that the states were formed with separate governments well before the nation. A lot of different ways of looking at things developed for many years before Oz really started. Gun laws were almost uniformly regulated because of the reaction to some disastrous events.
I guess the Game Council thing will distill a new deal over time that perhaps other states copy/improve. Could be a good thing. Will it happen, yep because state governments copy each other...just a matter of time...hope no other big disasters happen to throw a spanner in the works. Is there any way to reverse all this? History shows us that governments and beaurecrats like to control and grow larger. Better to work with it and make it work better. Going it alone or ignoring obvious change that is highly likely is not a good strategy. We do not have the right to own or use arms whether guns, knives or bows guaranteed under our constitution so we really have to make sure that the rest of society do not become so disenchanted with us that we lose the privilege we have been democratically granted.......look how close we came to losing gun licensing in NSW and nationally around the time of Port Arthur. A state labour party lost office in NSW over the passion and politics; John Howard became a national hero to many just because of the way he handled the issue.

There is more passion /angst in this area [guns, bows, hunting] than almost any other issue and those of us who are in the minority and wish to do so should never let the raw passion in a discussion turn people away. We do not need to appear like unthinking Neanderthals. Bad look. Bad fit. Losing game plan.

Kevin

[Stickbow Hunter]

G'day All,

As some will be aware, a number of posts by members have been removed from this thread because they had become personal and defamatory.

I have not sent any PM's to anyone informing them that their post or posts were removed as I think this public announcement is sufficient. This topic is worth discussing so please continue minus the personal attacks etc.

Jeff

[Coach]

I dont know what was said after I turned off the PC last night, so I cant comment . But what I can clarify is , I was not calling anyone involved a paedophile , I was using it as an example of not wanting one in the school etc, etc .
Anyway , I wont be saying anymore , as the censorship is getting beyond a joke !

[pedro]

What gets me is its against the law to release deer and you get fined for doing so! Deer have always been thought of as a feral, until the GC decided they were not and now their a game animal and youve goto pay the GC. This is the same animal but its status has changed You'll still be fined if you let one go though, but now you have to pay to extract one and only in the so called seasons..
Isn't the GC's whole thing about eradication and helping aussie fawna, isn't that how they got it all through the system? so whats this managing herds rubbish? its managing a pest.
Now, cockey's are allowed to shoot/cull deer on their property as they see fit...but a person who has permission from the cocky to hunt pigs,and other ferals legally on his land can not hunt deer even though the cocky wants him too unless he pays some gov agency $60. how dare the GC tell the cocky who can and cant hunt deer(a pest to him) on his land
i think this "G" liscence is rubbish. How dare the GC charge and decide who can shoot a feral on private land.
On the other hand i do think the r-liscence is a good thing as it is reaslly a win win all around

[Coach]

Land owners are exempt from the GC law to a degree , I think that hunting Deer under light is still illegal, but I may be wrong .

As for the rest Pedro , I agree with you

[Nephew]

This is an interesting debate. From my P.O.V. , I believe an "R" license would give me access to land that I would have nearly no chance to access otherwise. As a total novice, it is close to impossible to get access to new properties, especially as I am currently without a drivers license. The G.C. is a great way for me to learn through their hunter education courses as well. Having said that, I concur that it is yet another level of regulation in a time when we are way over regulated as it is. I think it should come down to an agreement between land owners and hunters and no-one else's business as well. Unfortunately that would exclude me, and many other folk new to this.To learn to hunt from an ethical standpoint, and to get access to land, the G.C. is the best option for me, and I'm hoping something similar can happen in Qld.

[pedro]

yep, i do agree that the "R" license is a great thing for novices and all other hunters that cant gain acess but it will not give you permission to hunt private land, and niether will the "G". The property owner is the only person who has this right, and he also has the right to exterminate all the deer on his place, and legally too, but he cannot have a friend help him unless the friend pays $60 to the "GC". go figure.

[jindydiver]

I think it should come down to an agreement between land owners and hunters and no-one else's business as well.

This is what the R licence is. Forests NSW are giving access to the States forests for hunting, and they have a formalised arrangement for granting that access through the GC. Before the GC was started we all had access to forests, at least that was the idea, but the system was corrupt and needlessly excluded many hunters who rightly felt they had as much right to hunt there as anybody else. People can argue till their blue in the face that they resent the intrusion of more regulation on hunting, but it is a fact that without that new regulation 99% of hunters in NSW had no access to those forests, now they have.

yep, i do agree that the "R" license is a great thing for novices and all other hunters that cant gain acess but it will not give you permission to hunt private land, and niether will the "G". The property owner is the only person who has this right, and he also has the right to exterminate all the deer on his place, and legally too, but he cannot have a friend help him unless the friend pays $60 to the "GC". go figure.

Yep, hate the G licence, always have, but the prosecution of those poachers this week has shown the value of it. Before the introduction of a licensing system for the hunting of deer people poached, they still do, but now there are not only penalties attached to poaching but the poachers lose the right to hunt deer at all in NSW for 10 years. Now that there has been a prosecution and poachers see that they not only lose some cash but also lose the ability to hunt deer even when they have permission from the land owner. These guys get caught again and the penalties can get very severe.