Excellent stuff, thanks!
Erron
Pig Sticking Article in FHM!!!
Moderator: Moderators
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Dennis La Varenne
- Posts: 1776
- Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2003 10:56 pm
- Location: Tocumwal, NSW. Australia
Luke,
I am afraid that I haven't got much to offer in the way of advice other than to play it very carefully by ear and be very suspicious.
In all honesty, I would not have extended the invitation at all in the first place. But that is my own sour grapes showing because the organizations I have been involved with up to the recent past have been very badly shafted by the print media in particular when they have tried to put their position on similar issues.
However, I would suggest that you set some solid ground rules along the lines that what you intend showing them is bowhunting practised to a standard of high hunter ethics as opposed to other people's ethics. Under no circumstances allow yourself to be put up to any poses or activity which you would not ordinarily do as an ethical hunter which show disrespect for any animal which you may have taken during the course of this exercise.
Avoid 'Rambo poses' like poison and never look triumphant over any dead animal. I know it goes against the grain, but could I suggest that if you are posed with a dead animal, that you look at the animal and NOT the camera, (especially with a grin on your face) and insist on this.
You should then go to some trouble to make it quite clear what those ethical standards are and the rules you impose upon yourself to ensure that you abide by them even when there is no-one around to see you break them if the opportunity arises.
Don't get into debates about hunting ethics vs other ethics. Don't try to justify why you kill animals, other than for food and for pest destruction. You will always lose that argument.
Just explain what our ethics are and demonstrate them in a manner that clearly shows that you kill animals humanely. Very importantly, demonstrate also the occasions where you would refuse to take a shot and WHY!!!!
Let these people know that you are not insensitive to the concerns of non-hunting members of the public, but that you do not necessarily share them, and that you do not try to push your views on those who find them unacceptable.
Nor do you accept the reverse, that you should be forced to accept views that you do not share or believe in just because someone else considers that they have found 'THE ANSWER' for all people for all time, and that if others like us resist that kind of thinking, we should be legally punished.
You could offer that unless there is a clear ecological adverse impact upon the viability of the species being hunted, that the actual practice of hunting has such an adverse impact on the ecology of a hunted environment, or that there is a clear and demonstratable danger to the public from hunting in any hunted area, there is really no genuine reason for the supression of arguably our oldest human heritage which has been practised on all continents and unbroken since the dawn of human beings.
There really ought to be a better reason that just an opposing ideology for the abolition of such an ancient heritage if it is practised humanely. It is part of the natural relationship of humans and animals. After all, there are no other beneficiaries from the abolition of hunting other than anti-ideologues.
Never say (bow)hunting is primarily for trophy reasons, or you put yourself among the bone collectors who practice horn porn because that is how the antis and many ordinary people see trophy hunting.
You are a hunter and you hunt. That is what hunters do. If you take trophies, explain that they are mementos of a good hunt, but never say that it is the main reason for hunting. This is never a socially acceptable or justifiable reason outside of hunting circles, believe me.
Remember, it is yourself who has taken the moral high ground on this issue by approaching FHM on the issue of the relative ethical standards of dogging vs hunting generally and bowhunting in particular, and FHM will expect to see that in practice.
Where you do have a good argument is in pointing out that unlike dogging bowhunters, do not get thrills from seeing hunted animals terrorised and harmed as part of the hunt before they are killed as dogging seems to do. It would be almost impossible to deny this. Opposing this, bowhunting's ideal is to humanely kill an undisturbed animal so far as is humanly and humanely practicable.
It is a very great responsibility you have taken on board in electing yourself as spokesman on our behalf, and we are counting on you. I hope that some of the foregoing is useful in your 'face to face' with these people. They may actually turn out to be reasonable people with no barrow to push.
Dennis La Varenne
PS: Lindsay, I used to be a Comp in the old days, sometimes on the stone, but mostly in ad-makeup. These days I work in the image editing section of an ad-makeup department and use Photoshop to bring pics up to print standards.
I am afraid that I haven't got much to offer in the way of advice other than to play it very carefully by ear and be very suspicious.
In all honesty, I would not have extended the invitation at all in the first place. But that is my own sour grapes showing because the organizations I have been involved with up to the recent past have been very badly shafted by the print media in particular when they have tried to put their position on similar issues.
However, I would suggest that you set some solid ground rules along the lines that what you intend showing them is bowhunting practised to a standard of high hunter ethics as opposed to other people's ethics. Under no circumstances allow yourself to be put up to any poses or activity which you would not ordinarily do as an ethical hunter which show disrespect for any animal which you may have taken during the course of this exercise.
Avoid 'Rambo poses' like poison and never look triumphant over any dead animal. I know it goes against the grain, but could I suggest that if you are posed with a dead animal, that you look at the animal and NOT the camera, (especially with a grin on your face) and insist on this.
You should then go to some trouble to make it quite clear what those ethical standards are and the rules you impose upon yourself to ensure that you abide by them even when there is no-one around to see you break them if the opportunity arises.
Don't get into debates about hunting ethics vs other ethics. Don't try to justify why you kill animals, other than for food and for pest destruction. You will always lose that argument.
Just explain what our ethics are and demonstrate them in a manner that clearly shows that you kill animals humanely. Very importantly, demonstrate also the occasions where you would refuse to take a shot and WHY!!!!
Let these people know that you are not insensitive to the concerns of non-hunting members of the public, but that you do not necessarily share them, and that you do not try to push your views on those who find them unacceptable.
Nor do you accept the reverse, that you should be forced to accept views that you do not share or believe in just because someone else considers that they have found 'THE ANSWER' for all people for all time, and that if others like us resist that kind of thinking, we should be legally punished.
You could offer that unless there is a clear ecological adverse impact upon the viability of the species being hunted, that the actual practice of hunting has such an adverse impact on the ecology of a hunted environment, or that there is a clear and demonstratable danger to the public from hunting in any hunted area, there is really no genuine reason for the supression of arguably our oldest human heritage which has been practised on all continents and unbroken since the dawn of human beings.
There really ought to be a better reason that just an opposing ideology for the abolition of such an ancient heritage if it is practised humanely. It is part of the natural relationship of humans and animals. After all, there are no other beneficiaries from the abolition of hunting other than anti-ideologues.
Never say (bow)hunting is primarily for trophy reasons, or you put yourself among the bone collectors who practice horn porn because that is how the antis and many ordinary people see trophy hunting.
You are a hunter and you hunt. That is what hunters do. If you take trophies, explain that they are mementos of a good hunt, but never say that it is the main reason for hunting. This is never a socially acceptable or justifiable reason outside of hunting circles, believe me.
Remember, it is yourself who has taken the moral high ground on this issue by approaching FHM on the issue of the relative ethical standards of dogging vs hunting generally and bowhunting in particular, and FHM will expect to see that in practice.
Where you do have a good argument is in pointing out that unlike dogging bowhunters, do not get thrills from seeing hunted animals terrorised and harmed as part of the hunt before they are killed as dogging seems to do. It would be almost impossible to deny this. Opposing this, bowhunting's ideal is to humanely kill an undisturbed animal so far as is humanly and humanely practicable.
It is a very great responsibility you have taken on board in electing yourself as spokesman on our behalf, and we are counting on you. I hope that some of the foregoing is useful in your 'face to face' with these people. They may actually turn out to be reasonable people with no barrow to push.
Dennis La Varenne
PS: Lindsay, I used to be a Comp in the old days, sometimes on the stone, but mostly in ad-makeup. These days I work in the image editing section of an ad-makeup department and use Photoshop to bring pics up to print standards.
Bowhunting with FHM
Howd'y Luke,
Well there's been a whole lot happening on here while I've been out. I sent a letter to FHM [ copy posted on here earlier] as like a lot of hunters I was appalled by the story. Well done on your effort mate and you have a lot of excellent advise from people with a lot of experience in this field. All I can say is be careful mate, critters don't always read the script. You haven't mentioned what feral animals you intend to hunt but whatever you maybe hunting the guys from FHM aren't going to make it any easier.
So you will have to lay your rules down and make sure the whole crew sticks to them 100% and don't compromise. I've had two different media crews in our Bowhunting camp over the years and once I layed it out straight I had very little trouble with them but I made sure I got to proof read it all before it went to print.
Best of luck mate!
Well there's been a whole lot happening on here while I've been out. I sent a letter to FHM [ copy posted on here earlier] as like a lot of hunters I was appalled by the story. Well done on your effort mate and you have a lot of excellent advise from people with a lot of experience in this field. All I can say is be careful mate, critters don't always read the script. You haven't mentioned what feral animals you intend to hunt but whatever you maybe hunting the guys from FHM aren't going to make it any easier.
So you will have to lay your rules down and make sure the whole crew sticks to them 100% and don't compromise. I've had two different media crews in our Bowhunting camp over the years and once I layed it out straight I had very little trouble with them but I made sure I got to proof read it all before it went to print.
Best of luck mate!
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Griffo
Adam and I invited the FHM rep on our hunt at New years.. he declined...bummer that, I can't imagine a better thing to do over a long weekend 
. But we are keeping him up to date on our hunting plans for the year and will negotiate/sought out a suitable time for us to get together for the hunt.
Griffo
. But we are keeping him up to date on our hunting plans for the year and will negotiate/sought out a suitable time for us to get together for the hunt.Griffo