NSW Game Council newsletter - March 2005

[jindydiver]

This is probably naive of me , but would the Council exist without our money for their "license"?

The council has been given finite funding by the state gov’ and is expected to be self sustaining within a period of time, IIRC 3 years.

As I said before ,how are they going to know if we shoot a deer on private land?

Quite obviously they don’t, and they will never be able to effectively enforce the laws in relation to private land for as long as they take the attitude they are now, that is giving us ultimatums without explanations and ignoring the genuine concerns of NSW deer hunters.

A prime example would be your recent trip where you were told by the farmer there was a good chance of seeing the deer. I would bet pennies to pounds you didn't think for one second about going and getting a G permit before heading out to hunt those deer.
The same goes for thousands of NSW hunters who see this as a tax on hunting.

As I said before, none of the resistance they have seen on these issues would exist if they explained fully the reasons for their decisions, and I believe that if they could convince us with sound logic they would have hunters pushing for the necessary changes rather than the situation now where they have to drag us into compliance with the laws.

[coach]

The council has been given finite funding by the state gov’ and is expected to be self sustaining within a period of time, IIRC 3 years.

So, without our money they will not exist? I think I read it right!

A prime example would be your recent trip where you were told by the farmer there was a good chance of seeing the deer. I would bet pennies to pounds you didn't think for one second about going and getting a G permit before heading out to hunt those deer

You know me well enough to know the answer to that one Jindy

Basically the whole thing sux IMO I for one will never buy a license unless they release some decent public land to hunt on and that is as long as there is no rifle shooters on it or doggers!

[Stickbow Hunter]

Mr McKinney said:

I have been invited to respond to recent discussions on this website about the requirement for holders of Restricted NSW Game Hunting Licences to be members of Game Council ‘Approved Hunting Organisations.’

All I can say is that Mr McKinney obviously didn't see the need to read the contents of the posts or didn't care because he certainly didn't address the points raised in them. He just seemed to rehash what had previously been stated.

Something that seems to come through loud and clear from this thread and previous ones on this topic, is that the Game Council is ONLY interested in representing hunters who will join their accredited clubs / organizations. It is not unresasonable then to reach the conclusion that they obviously agree with it - how sad.

There are other things which I believe are wrong such as restrictions regarding hunting on FREE HOLD land. Another example of laws passed by State Governments which are in direct contridiction of recent Australian High Court Rulings.

If this is what Game Councils are all about, I certainly hope the idea is never adopted by other states.

Jeff

[erron]

Another example of laws passed by State Governments which are in direct contridiction of recent Australian High Court Rulings.

Jeff, could you enlarge on this?

Erron

[Stickbow Hunter]

Erron,

This is the information I have. It involves a High Court ruling regarding a case in TAS where the owner of free hold land was fined $100,000 dollars by the State Government for cutting timber on his land.

The farmer appealed and the matter went before the High Court of Australia. The Court ruled in his favour with his fine being wiped and all costs awarded against the State. This is the gist of ruling "That 'Free Hold' land was just that, free hold. The owner owned everything on it, the trees, dirt, water etc and therefore he had the right to cut the trees.

On the basis of this a Qld State Memeber was helping to prepare another similar case against the Qld State Government. I don't know that this case has gone to court.

That is a very short version of the information I was given from a person who had a small involvement in the proposed Qld case. I have no reason to believe the information given to me was false but admit I have not checked out the details of the case myself. I imagine the details of the TAS case would be available if one was to search it out.

Jeff

[erron]

Well, if we're talking about trees, I don't believe Freehold owners have the right to chop them down willy nilly. Deer will breed back in a few years; trees can take hundreds, and the incidental environmental damage wrought by some of the 'farmer's I've known when they were cutting down trees makes the stomach churn...

I believe these are 2 different issues, Jeff.

Erron

[coach]

and the incidental environmental damage wrought by some of the 'farmer's I've known when they were cutting down trees makes the stomach churn...

I believe these are 2 different issues, Jeff.

I agree Erron,, a lot of the farmers really need some education! Just look at the devastating effects that were brought on the enviroment by the "old" farmers Unfortuanetly there is still some that think like the oldtimers.

[Stickbow Hunter]

Erron,

Perhaps you were looking at this differently from me but I think these issues are related. I say this because feral game on free hold land should/does belong to the owner of that land as does the trees. Why should the Government try and tell the land owner what he can do with what is his. Native animals are a different situation.

I agree that many people have done damage to our environment by cutting all the trees down. This is not what we were discussing here and this isn't the site for doing so IMO.

Jeff

[coach]

Doesn't text communication just suck!

I see what you are saying now Stickbow! Yes you are right on that point I think. There has already been a precedent on trees ,,why not animals ? On FREEHOLD land ,,yeah.

[Stickbow Hunter]

Doesn't text communication just suck!

That's one way of putting it Coach.

Jeff

[erron]

In my usual thick way I might be missing the point here, but anyway:

I say this because feral game on free hold land should/does belong to the owner of that land as does the trees.

- agreed, but it belongs to the owner in TRUST, i.e. said owner should keep either trees or game in good overall condition in the certain knowledge that what that owner now owns, will one day be bequeathed/sold to one of us: the people! I get edgy when folks say - or at least imply - the owners have absolute authority to do whatever they want with their holdings, that's all.

Why should the Government try and tell the land owner what he can do with what is his.

- because in a democracy, the government represents us, the people. I know that isn't always a perfect solution, but it beats the hell out of the Laissez-Faire approach that's buggered the environment over the past several hundred years.

Erron

[coach]

In my usual thick way I might be missing the point here,

To a degree I think you are .

I get edgy when folks say - or at least imply - the owners have absolute authority to do whatever they want with their holdings, that's all.

Would you appreciate some one coming into your home or land and tell you what you can and can't do with it? They are the OWNERS .

because in a democracy, the government represents us

Well lets ,, let the Game Council tell us what is right and wrong and what is gunna be then! They are the Government

Excuse my ignorance but I dont know who Laissez-Faire is

[Stickbow Hunter]

Erron,

I agree with you to a certain extent and can understand your concern for the environment but forget about the trees for now.

The feral animals are owned by the property owners in my opinion (and by law in Qld I believe) and if they wish to exterminate them from their properties that is their right.

The animals we are talking about - cat, fox, pig, deer etc - are ALL feral and they ALL do damage of some kind. They were all introduced!!! Remember the Governement has spent millions of dollars trying to eradicate most of these species at some time or other.

I don't believe the property owners have any responsibility to maintain the numbers or quality of these FERAL animals - which are damaging the environment - for future generations. I also don't believe the Government has any right to try and make them do this either.

Jeff

[jindydiver]

Stickbow hunter

If a farmer has deer on his property and he decides that they need to be thinned he has every right to cull those animals as he sees fit. The new laws don’t take that right away from him, but what they do is reduce his options as to how that cull will take place. Since the introduction of the game council, farmers in NSW or their employees are the only people allowed to do the cull without having to pay for a permit. This means that for myself and I would guess a great many hunters in NSW, when the farmer says “the deer are into the roses (or vegies, or on the crop, or whatever), do you think you can bowl a few over, I have too much on this week” we can’t do this without either having purchased a permit or breaking the new laws.

The game council likes to make a big thing about it’s “co-operative agreements” with farmers who need the culling work to be carried out, but I just can’t see the farmers I know saying “ Hey, that new gov’ dept’ has got a whole bunch of shooters that I don’t know from Adam, maybe I will get them on here to do a bit of shooting”, especially when up until the new laws were introduced they could just ring me or one of the other hunters, who they actually know, to do the job. And what happens when the culling work needs to be carried out during the “closed season”? It just sounds like another bunch of bureaucrats sticking their noses into a farmers business and telling him what they think is best.

I hunt a lot of deer on one place in particular ( and I know that at least one group of Sydney based bowhunting video guys that also hunt there) and the owner has no love of government intrusion into the running of his farm. When he says “ come and stick a few fallow in your freezer” he is not spending one second wondering about closed seasons or game permits or any of the other crap we have now been lumbered with.

And the whole concept of a closed season for fallow deer is the biggest load of horse dung they have heaped on us yet.

[coach]

farmers in NSW or their employees are the only people allowed to do the cull without having to pay for a permit.

Easy fixed ,, hire me for the duration of my hunt and pay me ...oh lets say.....$2. There you go I was an "employee" during that time!

Totaly legal!

[jindydiver]

Good try coach, but I don't think it is that easy. It sounds like a good idea but if you were to try that on with some inspector you would just be bringing a **** load of trouble to the farmer. I am sure many farmers would be sweet on the idea until they found Workcover and the Australian Tax Office taking an interest in their buisnesses.

Farmers were I go say "f##k them, I shot them and who is to say any different". They don't have the time for the job and don't want to involve some new gov' agency in their buisness either.

[erron]

Would you appreciate some one coming into your home or land and tell you what you can and can't do with it?

- Coach, from such a statement I guess you've never built / renovated / extended a home, or made any major excavational change to a block of land? The authorities are all over the place in such circumstances, and good thing they are or we would have the appalling safety record of countries where buidlings regularly fall on top of their inhabitants. We employ laws in such circumstances to protect neighbours, and future owners of the property concerned, just as I said about contry properties in my first post.

Having said that, I admit that Law and democracy aren't perfect, and in cases like the Game Council they obviously need to be challenged.

Erron

[stace]

Just had a phone call from one of my land owners on whose property I hunt .
He has been ringing the Game Council for weeks for a copy of their Public Liability Policy and number as he has professional guides hunt the proprety for Deer .
He was told weeks ago that the policy details were already in the mail ,He has just recieved a letter today with a statement that the details are on their web site
Great only he doesn't have the internet
So he asked me to find it (cause he thinks the policy doesn't exist)
BUT I haven't been able to find it SO hears the question
HAS ANYONE SEEN THE POLICY AND OR NUMBER in question

OH and the letter was dated days after her last rang
stace

[Mick Smith]

I've been sitting back reading all these posts. I haven't really had anything to say, being a Victorian and all.

The more I see about the Game Council the more I like the fact that I live in Victoria. What an abortion!

Just hope its not contagious, but if it is, I hope we Mexicans get a milder dose of it.

Mick