here is one worth a look ... hunting and media

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wishsong
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here is one worth a look ... hunting and media

#1 Post by wishsong » Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:42 am

just thought this might provide some light reading .....

http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/hun ... save-them/

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jindydiver
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Re: here is one worth a look ... hunting and media

#2 Post by jindydiver » Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:46 pm

Why is it always the animal libber types that descend into calling others names and calling for violence against people. :roll:
Mick


Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.

Abraham Lincoln

wishsong
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Re: here is one worth a look ... hunting and media

#3 Post by wishsong » Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:56 pm

Jindy ... I am not allowed to swaer on this site so my anwer is somewhat wanting ..... :mrgreen:

I responde to it ... don't know why . I don't think you could ever change these peoples minds ....

cheers

Ben

longbowinfected
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Re: here is one worth a look ... hunting and media

#4 Post by longbowinfected » Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:07 pm

of course I am biased but I thought the hunter's article was well written.

Not being funny but how much ecosystem has been destroyed to produce cereals fruit and vegetables? I suspect almost as much land as for producing meat. Do not get me wrong I love fruit vegies and cereals too. If all food was grown hydroponicaly the amount of plastics being produced and other exotic items might not be as sustainable as we might think. A lot of hydroponic people use a lot of power, materials and fertilisers etc.

Feeding people's needs [recreation/lifestyle] as well as food needs is not simple......just lok at the loss of food when bio fuels are grown.......not easy to balance.

Kevin
never complain....you did not have to wake up....every day is an extra bonus and costs nothing.

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GrahameA
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Re: here is one worth a look ... hunting and media

#5 Post by GrahameA » Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:45 am

Hi Kev.
longbowinfected wrote:A lot of hydroponic people use a lot of power, materials and fertilisers etc.
if you approach agriculture from an energy viewpoint, ie energy into the system for what you get out, things are not can be very different.

If you approach agriculture from a cost viewpoint then again things can be surprising. Australia is facing a rapidly increasing cost of energy. What happens when road transport cost double or the energy cost to produce fertiliser doubles, etc.
Grahame.
Shoot a Selfbow, embrace Wood Arrows, discover Vintage, be a Trendsetter.

"Unfortunately, the equating of simplicity with truth doesn't often work in real life. It doesn't often work in science, either." Dr Len Fisher.

longbowinfected
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Re: here is one worth a look ... hunting and media

#6 Post by longbowinfected » Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:43 pm

Going to Austria was a revelation. Whilst landing in Wien [called Vienna by some] you could see thousands of power generating wind turbines. One to every farm. Producing power and food at the ame place makes a lot of sense. When I think about all the arguments from folk trying to stop this in Oz it frustrates me. Our great problems relate to distances and that affects delivering food and power, things we have to be smarter about. Twenty years ago Australia led the world in solar power. Why it is not mandatory to have wind powered plant / solar power / solar heating in all new homes and more funding to update old houses is beyond me.

Kevin
never complain....you did not have to wake up....every day is an extra bonus and costs nothing.

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Nephew
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Re: here is one worth a look ... hunting and media

#7 Post by Nephew » Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:51 pm

longbowinfected wrote:. Twenty years ago Australia led the world in solar power. Why it is not mandatory to have wind powered plant / solar power / solar heating in all new homes and more funding to update old houses is beyond me.

Kevin
Because the fossil fuel industry is very wealthy, VERY powerful, and have very persuasive lobbyists mate, and that's the ONLY reason! :x
Lately, if life were treating me any better, I'd be suspicious of it's motives!

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GrahameA
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Re: here is one worth a look ... hunting and media

#8 Post by GrahameA » Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:25 pm

Hi Kevin.
longbowinfected wrote:Twenty years ago Australia led the world in solar power. Why it is not mandatory to have wind powered plant / solar power / solar heating in all new homes and more funding to update old houses is beyond me.
This is a two part answer.

Part 1. The upfront costs of Energy in Australia is cheap, we have an abundance of Coal which we can burn to make electricity. When you do the accounting at no stage during the past thirty years has it been cheaper to produce power from a Solar Plant - home or Commercial - compared to tapping energy off a Commercial grid. So if people where to produce it themselves they would be financially losing. Even people who have recently opted for some form of augmentation of their supply by Solar Cells are taking a gamble in that what they save will offset the cost of the installation (note the price is being subsidised by the government).

Part 2. Buildings, generally, have not been designed to be efficient in the use of energy and no government so far has been willing to offset the cost to make them so. Thus Mr and Mrs average are unlikely to fork out bulk dollars to do a retrofit or mandate that new work be built in an energy efficient manner.

It is in part the NIMBY issue, part a lack of government will (who wants to be the first party to mandate some stuff so the Opposition can oppose it plus increase their chances of losing the next election), plus a lack of understanding of the issues and the alternatives by the general populace.

In return I ask you a question. Recently this country has effectively mandated the use of high efficiency lightbulbs. What safe disposal method has the government mandated so as to prevent the leaking of Mercury - which is not good for people - into the environment. Add to that all of the other heavy metals we are throwing into waste dumps by the tonne daily (the are issues associated with all those rechargeable batteries).

Hi Craig
longbowinfected wrote:. Twenty years ago Australia led the world in solar power. Why it is not mandatory to have wind powered plant / solar power / solar heating in all new homes and more funding to update old houses is beyond me.

Kevin
Because the fossil fuel industry is very wealthy, VERY powerful, and have very persuasive lobbyists mate, and that's the ONLY reason! :x
No. The fossil fuel industry is responding to a market demand. if you did not buy their product then they would not be able to sell it. No one is holding a gun at your head say buy it. There are alternatives it is just that for most current fossil fuel usage is the easy way out.
Grahame.
Shoot a Selfbow, embrace Wood Arrows, discover Vintage, be a Trendsetter.

"Unfortunately, the equating of simplicity with truth doesn't often work in real life. It doesn't often work in science, either." Dr Len Fisher.

longbowinfected
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Re: here is one worth a look ... hunting and media

#9 Post by longbowinfected » Tue Nov 08, 2011 5:36 pm

The state governments in NSW [of all ilks] have been using the grid as a cash cow for many years, the costs could have been much lower to consumers. The trouble is that insufficient money has been put back into maintenance and infrasrtucture. A couple more accidents like the big burn at the power station could see massive power outages in the near future. If you hook up to the system with solar without the capacity to save power/energy and the grid goes down you might get nothing.

Kev
never complain....you did not have to wake up....every day is an extra bonus and costs nothing.

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GrahameA
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Re: here is one worth a look ... hunting and media

#10 Post by GrahameA » Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:13 pm

Hi Kevin

Separate the issues.
longbowinfected wrote:The state governments in NSW [of all ilks] have been using the grid as a cash cow for many years, the costs could have been much lower to consumers.
I doubt that. You could probably drop it a little however, IMHO it would not be much. I would argue in favour of a price increase if the voters of NSW want a more reliable system.
longbowinfected wrote:The trouble is that insufficient money has been put back into maintenance and infrasrtucture.
That is an opinion and I do not have any figures which show the System Minutes lost and thus am unable to see the size of the system failures.
longbowinfected wrote:A couple more accidents like the big burn at the power station could see massive power outages in the near future.
Multiple failures on any system have a high probability of taking the whole system down.
longbowinfected wrote:If you hook up to the system with solar without the capacity to save power/energy and the grid goes down you might get nothing.

If you are connected to the system and not generating and the system goes down unless you have a source of energy (ie storage or standby generation) the lights will go out.

One of the challenges of any electrical system which uses intermittent generation is being able to supply energy to the system when the generation stops. In the simplest system Deep Cycle batteries are a simple solution. Charge them during the day draw from them at night. The approach taken with a typical home installation is to generate to during the day supplying the residence and feeding excess into the grid. At night it draws energy off the grid. Works great if energy is available. Jumping to a real grid like the interconnected eastern seaboard grid things are a little more complex and there is a mixture of generation sources available at any one point in time. It is a little more complex than flicking a switch.

Have a read of the latest document referring to the Power System Adequacy for the interconnected network which is a starter point for the system - http://www.aemo.com.au/electricityops/0410-0077.pdf

When talking about this stuff it is both important and crucial to separate Governmental (Political) Decision Making from Engineering Decision Making.
Grahame.
Shoot a Selfbow, embrace Wood Arrows, discover Vintage, be a Trendsetter.

"Unfortunately, the equating of simplicity with truth doesn't often work in real life. It doesn't often work in science, either." Dr Len Fisher.

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