Hunting under threat

[bigbob]

After reading the Editorial in the latest Bowhunting Downunder Mag., I felt compelled to echo his comments. We are currently living in a 'fools paradise' thinking we will just continue to maintain the 'status quo' and continue on our merry way hunting where we like and when we like [ within reason] without any contribution to the broader scheme of things. In other words just continue to do our own thing. Well I'm here to tell you like it or not, and I know this subject has been touched on before, that if all off us that enjoy the outdoor lifestyle and particularly hunting dont get off your individual a###s and join one of the Archery groups in Oz, then you can kiss that 'right' goodbye and it wont be long in coming. They all need numbers - read- members to present their collective case to all levels of Government. RSPCA officers in either S.A or W.A have publically declared it is their intention to have all forms of hunting banned in Australia.As well, others want bows to be declared prohibited weapons.Having been a member of a fishing forum a little while back and preparing submissions to Qld Gov., regarding blanket bans of fishing in some areas, it was heart rendering to see all the technical data and observations by eminent Marine Biologists and the like who also happened to be keen fisherfolk have their imput given lip service and the bans rushed in regardlessThe Editor of the Mag I mentioned is one of Australia's top hunters, and this mention is done without his knowledge so I apologise if I am out of place, but for him to make such an impassioned plea underlines the gravity of the situation. NSW has the game council which has opened up huge area of land for hunting ; some only for bowhunting. The greens have taken it on themselves to attack the Game council and are trying to dismantle it. For your interest this council is mostly manned by volunteers, who forsake valuable free time when they them selves could be out hunting to try and get the best for bowhunters. There is an immense amount of work being done by all facets of the sport to try and ensure our hunting future.The recent alliance formed by ABA, AAA3D and AA, can only be good for what we hold dear. If everybody continues to maintain a ''stuff you Jack, I'm alright' attitude and goes it alone then take it from me you are DOOMED. If you are outside looking in then you would have no idea of the huge amount of work being done for hunting rights.Any individual's voice reacting to this would be like peeing into the wind, but at least big numbers in clubs will hold some weight. I have no interest in any thing other than to see our way of life[ which these days is certainly not a 'right'] continue. So my message is, when things start to get ugly and it wont be long, it will be too late if we cant get these bodies to represent ALL of us.All hate mail can be directed to this post only.C yu

[Stickbow Hunter]

You have some valid points there Bob but the sad thing is if people keep writing and publishing articles which are IMO seriously questionable, both morally and ethically, such as I have seen in that mag and others over the years it won’t matter how many Bowhunters there are as Bowhunting will be banned – period!!!

Jeff

[bigbob]

Agreed Jeff! I have seen objectionable material in Bowhunting Mags on occasions for sure, but my point is we dont have the luxury of being passive and loners anymore if we wish to continue our passions. Believe it or not the organisations I speak of, are doing huge work behind the scene on behalf of all bowhunters and on several occasions have actually been instrumental in reversing what was about to be a very black day for our sport. A lot of these people as I mentioned are volunteers and for example The Game Council of NSW has held Bowhunter education seminars with hands on practical sessions on such things as field dressing game, and bowhunting ethics.A member of the NSW Government attended and from accounts left with a much better and fairer appreciation of what bowhunting was about. One other point is with a recognised system of game recording , these organisations can collate the data and demonstrate that in a given period bowhunting accounted for 'x' amount of feral pests. This is part of the numbers I speak of,; ie; the more members the more data,the less we can be ignored. It may be that in spite of all efforts, in a worst case scenario bowhunting gets banned. At least it wont be for the want of trying. It's better to go down fighting for beliefs than to meekly concede that its inevitable anyway.

[piggy]

I keep saying WE bowhunters will be the demise of our own sport especially now with the rubbish that appears on youtube bowhunters are providing the ammo for the antis!


real smart bunch hey! referring to the youtube posters

[wishsong]

I keep saying WE bowhunters will be the demise of our own sport especially now with the rubbish that appears on youtube bowhunters are providing the ammo for the antis!

That about says it all. Some of the stuff that gets printed and published in magazines /youtube etc is absolutely reprehensible and has little to do with the hunting/outdoors lifestyle as I see it.
We are our own worst enemies and if we do not police our own ranks then others will do it for us .

I have never gone with the umbrella theory ... what is good for the goose is not always good for the gander .
The Hunting "horn porn " and commercialisation of our sport helps no one but the Anti Hunting movement. And after seeing some of the 'canned hunts ' and other dribble via youtube etc , to the the uneducated it is not too far a stretch to lump us all in together.

You can't teach ethics and morals ... nor apparently guard against stupidity.

The gung ho machismo so often prevalent in our sport's media is hopefully not a true indication of its future direction. Having said that ... if you see those untoward things happening , being printed etc, a letter to the editor addressing you displeasure should be the first port of call.

I knew things were bad when i wrote , then called one magazine to address the reprehensible story of the man teaching his lad to 'blunt' animals to see if he was accurate enough ...
The response I recieved was less than savoury , and certainly not printable .

Apparently I was a 'Greenie' .....

But as stated ... joining your state hunting and archery groups/clubs etc is really important !

Nuff said ...

[Stickbow Hunter]

Very well said and I agree Ben and also Paul. I will point out that I would never call some of those people in those youtube flicks Bowhunters or even Hunters yet sadly they get portrayed as such. Going by their actions I think the same about some of those who appear in printed media. Of even more concern is that some of those promoting and doing these seriously questionable acts are members of the very organizations that people are calling for all of us to join; now that is something that needs addressing sooner rather than later!

I knew things were bad when i wrote , then called one magazine to address the reprehensible story of the man teaching his lad to 'blunt' animals to see if he was accurate enough ...
The response I recieved was less than savoury , and certainly not printable .

I have received similar responses mate.

But as stated ... joining your state hunting and archery groups/clubs etc is really important !

Yes that is important but just as important or even more so IMO, is for Bowhunters and most certainly those clubs and organizations who claim to represent Bowhunting, to police our own ranks and let it be known that such behaviour as mentioned above is not acceptable and will not be tolerated!!! Presently this just isn't happening as it should be IMO.

Jeff

[wishsong]

Jeff said ...

Of even more concern is that some of those promoting and doing these seriously questionable acts are members of the very organizations that people are calling for all of us to join; now that is something that needs addressing sooner rather than later!

well said !
Mate , that is always my concern with the whole umbrella theory . "united we stand " etc .
I don't want to be will not be associated with organisations whom represent or condone any questionable behaviours ...
It is so important to get these things right , and I think the very best way to combat such behaviour is not only to speak out when you see it , and more importantly getting newbies and youngsters out and about and show 'em what we are really stand for ... and the why's, wherefore's and how to's of what bowhunting is to those of us who care enough to know the difference

Maybe I am just gettiong old and grumpy ...

[Nutgrass]

I joined the ABA last year for this reason, I figured united we could make a difference & protect the sport of Bow Hunting

How I was wrong, the ABA deserted me & my group of hunters in our time of need.Left to fend for ourselves & fight our own battle. Held guilty until proven innocent, but we prevailed & the 100% ethics of our group shown through. But it could have ended much worse. But I will leave that there, it is still a little raw for me to chew yet.

Now what I write below is just my opinion from my limited knowledge. It comes with no research other than the life experience I bring to it. SO take it as you will & please don't get upset if it comes out the wrong way.

I think if bow hunting is to survive, we need to ban together with somebody who has done the hard work already. Dare I say it...... The SSAA comes to mind.
The likes of the ABA should be left to sporting grounds & their much loved archery shoots, they don't care enough about hunters to help us any more. We are mealy just a thorn in their side.

A separate Identity for Australian Bow Hunters swinging from the hip of the SSAA is our best chance in my opinion.

I agree with allot that has been said above, but I will not be renewing my ABA membership this year. I think their foresight & intentions are worthless. The sport of Bow Hunting is bound for failure if they are at the helm.

Yes I agree we can't sit on our hands, but the people steering the ship behind the above organisations are doing Bow Hunting NO favours. So what do you suggest we do ? I am open to idea's ?

As for the rubbish that gets printed & uploaded Might as well start boxing your gear up to hand in. For as long as articles like this keep getting air time, it is only a matter of time.
Yes Hunting comes with many variables & yes it doesn't always go right, but geez, use some discretion when telling the world about it

Just my 2 cents

[bigbob]

Gidget, I of course am not familiar with your situation as you mentioned and can only speak for my own experience, having been in ABA off and on for 30 years and that is there are a lot of very good people in ABA trying their damndest to further the aims of ordinary bowhunters. Some of them give up an inordinate amount of their own free time when they could be out hunting themselves, and believe me they like hunting as much as the next guy. I am not a member of any executive or any other position with ABA but am firmly convinced they now truly represent us. I have issues in the past mainly relating to competition rules, but have come to realise personal issues are insufficent reason to pull down the whole endeavour regarding bowhunting and owning bows in general. This is my view only and I know many will have strong objections to my views, but that is why we still live in a democracy. Cheers.

[kimall]

I used to be in the ABA club here in town and was told ounce that I was cruel to be hunting goats and pigs with a bow by one of the long standing members.One of the same that spent many hours of their own time to run the club and good on them for that but donating time does not show any support for our lifestyle.
Cheers KIM

[Nutgrass]

Yer mate, every one is entitled to their own opinion, just mine is right ...... ooops, Sorry mate, bit of a joke to lighten the mood Don't take any of this to heart mate, it is just me speaking my mind, it is no way directly directed at you, just me venting my opinion from this uncomfortable chair I am sitting in


Of coarse everyone's opinion is going to be different, it's what makes this world so much fun.
I don't doubt there are some ABA blokes trying their damned to help us hunters, but in my eyes if the organisation of the ABA was right behind them 110%, I can't help but think their job would be easier. I wish they were what we really need. But time & time again they seam to be failing the hunter in their time of need.

Honestly the idea of starting a whole new identity & then getting bow hunters to back it would be a mammoth task, ideally to cull dead wood from the ABA & refine them to be more Hunter orientated & leave the target stuff to other bodies of the Archery domain would be the ideal situation. Split the aba into 2 if you have to, but there is other bodies that could govern the target stuff for them. But this is unlikely to happen.
The reason I suggest the SSAA is they are in the thick of hunting & weapon bans all the time, they have the hard work on the table. they have basically what I would call a template that us Bow Hunters could work with, which would firstly save a lot of work & secondly give us a huge head start.

I am far from an expert on any of this, just my point of view.


I don't think I am aiming this as a personal grudge against the ABA. But the governing body which I was led to believe was there to protect me, turned out to jump ship with out our side of the story to instantly hold us Guilty.
I wouldn't say it is a grudge, more that I have been failed by the very people who I have been told, informed, led to believe & pay to protect me & us.
Yes if an official reprimand of ABA persons involved with our incident, I may have reconsidered my position on the ABA. But the fact no proper protocol was followed.
Our names went through mud for no reason with absolute no repercussion. Yes it left a sour taste, but it more showed me the larger picture.
I doubt you would rehire a security guard which you pay to keep your building safe & he turned out to give the keys to the robbers to let them in.


There is really two fights we are involved in here,
Firstly the protection of archery equipment, yes the ABA is probably somewhere near where they need to be to help here. The protectioon of archery equipment will effect both Target & bow hunters.
Secondly the protection of Bow Hunting. This is where I think we are in trouble.

Either way, yes I agree we need a united front. Yes we can't sit on out hands. Yes we need to protect our sport.
I just think it could be done far better for hunters if it was from a hunters point of view, not from a target orientated/hunters movement.

I will stop dribbling on now

[Dennis La Varenne]

G'day Bob,

Interesting and thoughtful thread.

On the subject of presenting a united front in our own defence, there are considerations other than simple amalgamation which are fundamental to our future acceptance by the general community and which are seriously neglected by hunters which I will expound below.

I spent 15 years working for the Bowhunting Defence Committee of ABA in Victoria and eventually became the Secretary of the Shooting Sports Council of Victoria which was an umbrella organization for all of the hunting/shooting organization of that State.

We lobbied very hard and long on all manner of hunting related issues including bowhunting which had a few run-ins with the Victorian Government, especially that in 1987 where we were slated for abolition on the grounds of cruelty.

ABA did save bowhunting in Victoria on that occasion because behind the scenes, a few people in the ABA National Executive put together the basics of the present Bowhunter Proficiency Manual which we presented to the Victorian Government in our own defence and to impress it with ABA's standards of ethical behaviour and training which had not really been publicly proclaimed seriously until then.

It was the eve of a bowhunting disaster and we got out of it by the skin of our teeth. I was not on the Committee during the first assaults, which were co-ordinated by Werner Jaeger, but I became its convenor as the dust just started to settle and remained in that position thereafter for 15 years.

I also headed the campaign to prevent bowhunting being abolished on the same grounds in Tasmania along with Gary Courtney-Byrne and a couple of others down there. We prevented its abolition down there too.

That said, to think we bowhunters alone count for a cracker politically are mistaken. We don't. There aren't enough of us collectively or concentrated in enough marginal electorates to cause a politician to get out of bed early. Like it or not, we are totally dependent upon being part of a large umbrella organization of some kind like the SSCV in Victoria.

Whilst I have some serious misgivings with the NSW Game Council, they are perhaps that's State's best hope for the time being so long as the State hunters continue to provide the free culling service it is doing for the NSW community. If that ever reaches unsatisfactory levels, I have not the slightest hesitation that the Game Council can and will be wound up. To think hunting opportunities are being opened up for the public are, in my opinion, very naive. Areas in need of a free culling operation are being opened up and when that job is done, I do not believe the considerations of hunters will count for a fig.

I do hope that I am wrong, and I would prefer to be wrong, but only time will tell that.

What Jeff started in reply to your original post on this issue is of considerable concern to me. I was also involved in a letter of complaint to the editor of an earlier bowhunting magazine where the main protagonist of the article baldly stated in his opening paragraphs that because he couldn't be bothered running after shot pigs in the heat, he preferred to shoot them in the spine to immobilise them and finish them off later.

The moral implications of this treatment of even a pest animal are horrific, let alone the legal implications against animal cruelty laws. Similar conduct with clear cruelty to animals has been not infrequently published in bowhunting magazines as exemplary and inspirational hunting stories.

To depict episodes of animal cruelty or neglect (such as in the spine shooting episode above), only example bowhunters to the general community as unprincipled and callous. The banding together of a bunch of cruel, callous and unprincipled bowhunters under any banner, from the point of view of the non-hunting public only means that the problem is far more widespread and insidious a problem than they thought.

On the other hand, a bunch of highly principled people who hold themselves accountable to the public for their moral behaviour will be seen as something for the moral betterment of society. That should be us, but it isn’t. Commonly, what our organizations proclaim as codes of ethics when contrasted with what we publish as exemplary behaviour whilst hunting show us to be outright hypocrites.

I have raised this topic on other occasions on Ozbow, only to have some members counter me with assertions that my ethical principles are not those of others and how dare I try to inflict mine on others. Quite apart from the absurdity of the claim that I could in any way be able to inflict any view on anyone, what concerns me is that those same people are never willing to explain their own codes of conduct in any, let alone itemised detail.

Now, whether my own, or the code of ethics of anybody else is ever accepted as the moral standard to which we hunters agree to abide is immaterial. The fact remains that a high standard of moral behaviour which we are willing to propound publicly and hold our members to account for, is and must become the fundamental principle under which any organized body should form. Calls to amalgamate under any banner are rubbish unless such a fundamental is the principal standard of that organization.

The nonsense idea that moral principles in hunting are the province of the individual are nothing less than ethical cowardice.

One can privately self-impose a higher standard certainly, but not lower, and that is the biggest craw in the necks of what I call, the ethical privateers – those hunters who consider that their personal ethics are not the business of others or that they are unaccountable to others for the moral consequences of their behaviour.

To claim virtue in ethical privateering whilst proposing amalgamation in a common cause is a contradiction in terms. It is the same as saying that the only reason that we should combine is so that these people can go about their business unaccountable and in any way that they wish – in other words, they all agree that they should be able to do whatever they want, any way they want and in any fashion that they want and that none of the parties to the agreement can be allowed to interfere in that principle. Not even criminal gangs can operate like that, and yet some/many among us bowhunters are saying just that.

If we are to amalgamate in a common cause, it MUST be under a common minimum enforceable ethical standard which is non-voluntary.

Without that publicly proclaimed ethical basis, we become little more than bloodthirsty thugs in the same way that crime is nothing more than free enterprise without ethics. On the other hand, the law is nothing less than encoded enforceable morality.

Hunting ethics then, are the principles from which are derived the moral rules we as bowhunters formulate among ourselves based upon the prevailing social standards of common decency of our timers to maintain ethical standards of behaviour additional to the law, not less than it.

The law as applied to hunting is not the highest statement of ethical behaviour; it is a bare minimum. To defend oneself from claims that one’s behaviour toward animals whilst hunting were not illegal says nothing to the non-hunting public, but infers a lot about the motives and perhaps the behaviour of the hunter. Society has the right to expect a far greater standard of behaviour than just following the black letter law.

Our hunting future won’t be decided on our numbers. The whole shooting community combined is not enough to prevent that. What will save us, is that we behave to a moral code understandable to and supported by the rest of the community who, in so allowing, see us as decent principled people –people whom they can trust to do the ‘right thing’ in out-of-sight places.

Sadly, to my view, far too much material published by our bowhunting magazines, internet and other periodicals have put far too much store on vicarious excitement and ‘horn porn’ to the detriment or exclusion of even basic norms of common decency. By contrast, how many hunting stories have the happy ending that the shot was not taken because of considerations for the welfare of the animal because there was the reasonable prospect that the shot would go awry. And even worse, how many bowhunters would bother to read such a story in a magazine they paid for. That, unfortunately, says far too much about our hunting culture as it now stands in this country.

The politics of hunting’s future will not be solved by numbers in this country. The voting system precludes that ever happening. It will be solved by our moral behaviour and our willingness to be accountable to the community for that behaviour. Animal rights groups are tiny compared to our numbers, yet the influence they have had is enormous and entirely centred on portraying themselves as fundamentally moral people and ourselves as the antithesis of morality.

Apropos of that matter, I point out again that both cases where I was involved with the ABA Bowhunting Defence Committee in Victoria were issues of animal cruelty, which is an issue of morality, not numbers. Governments were prepared to abolish hunting on moral grounds alone.

The tiny animal rights groups are winning the moral battle, hands down. By influence, not power, THEIR morals are becoming the moral norm for the general society. We, on the other hand are still saying among ourselves that morality in hunting is nobody else’s business. If the rest of society comes to believe that we are cruel and morally bankrupted people (probably sooner than later), it will do something about it which we won’t like. And, heaven knows that we are feeding them what they require FOR FREE!!!!

[piggy]

Dennis if I may are you or have been in the legal profession?

Cheers

[Antarcher]

Hello all. I know many of you on here, but to those who don't know me, I put out the magazine Bowhunter Australia. I am very passionate about the topic being covered here and I do put in my utmost efforts in order to have people do bowhunting the right way and portray it in the best light possible. I am also just another average bowhunter who loves to do what he does and want nothing more than to see our sport thrive into the future.

Though i am only relatively new to our pastime, I love it dearly and am always trying my damnedest not to bring it into disrepute. I also respect all those who go before me and value their input and criticism, taking it in as advice, rather than get my back up. I do realise the responsibility of putting out a print publication and do strive to do my best. However, if I do make a mistake, then i would most certainly hope that people would tell me upfront so that I can make an improvement and learn from my errors. i know nobody is perfect and mistakes will be made, but if they can be removed then i know we will all be better off.

Just recently I was contacted about a couple of things a couple of guys i really respect had an issue with. I had never spoken to them before, though I knew who they were and they were not happy, though they were very respectful when addressing their concerns. I could see what they meant and why it had upset them. Their criticism I took on board and it was much appreciated.

So, please I would like to ask any one of you, that if you believe there is a burning issue in what gets printed in the magazine that you feel is not good for our beloved pastime, then please email me at antonio@southpacificbowhunter.com and let me know. I will take it on board and I will make changes if they are needed. I strongly believe that we all have to stick together and work together in order to nurture our future. Yours in bowhunting, Antonio

[Dennis La Varenne]

Not at all, Piggy.

But during my time on the Bowhunting Defence Committee and with the SSCV as Secretary and its submissions drafting team, I had cause to read and digest quite a lot of Government documents on many issues which had some affect on the shooting sports generally.

One had to develop a knack for writing to them in a style which bureaucrats understood, I supppose. I also had a lot of very good help with assistants.

[piggy]

Cheers Mate, you knew exactly why I was asking thank you.

[bigbob]

Dennis have to agree with most of what you have posted, and as you yourself have had detailed interaction with various levels of Government, certainly understand what a machosistic endeavour that is. We both agree that hunting per se is under sustained attack by ludercrous extremist groups, small by definition but overly endowed with finances provided as 'conscience' money by petro chemical families. ABA does have the proficiency certificate, a small step in regulated and answerable ethics, but a hunting licence is on the way in Qld, and I am sure it is not aimed at bowhunters. The uneducated view [mostly by those who have no concepts of the capabilities of modern bows] is that bowhunting is inefficient and somewhat barbaric. It is hard to overcome these predudices unless that person can have an acceptable alternative presented to them in a convincing manner. Trophy bowhunters, an adjunct of ABAis undertaking a program this year whereby members are attempting to visit all branches to undertake bowhunter education and policy sessions. Unfortunately this will mainly be 'preaching to the converted' At the moment in Qld, apparently submissions are before Parliament concerning reclassification of different species of deer at different levels of feral pests, some to be culled on sight . Failure by landholders to do so would result in heavy punitive costs; plus a host of nasty ill conceived amendments to hunting etc. Using our previous futile attempts with fishing bans via lengthy and elaborate submissions as a guide to what is unfolding we are cactus.

[Damo']

Yes, For the right to hunt I tend to agree with adding our numbers to the ssaa, they have much greater political clout. As for the right to own a bow without a license, I think mainstream archery groups are the way to go. These groups like RSPCA used to have a real respectable outlook towards sporting hunters and Primary producers, now like so many people in this day'n'age are disconnected from the reality of what is done by others,IE-farmers, fishermen, slaughtermen, soldiers- to give them their easy urban livestyles, take them to Cambodia or Burma for a holiday and a reality check. Until human life is respected 100%, I will never give any credence to the "people haters". Its a pity they don't understand animism correctly, maybe they should watch avatar again, but without the drugs this time!!!
Lots of doctor dolittle's out there, most of em just need to do a honest days laborious work to really get over it!
Some people love animals too much to be considered mentally healthy, same as the opposite, sadistic behaviors- neither of which I would condone. Without a rational purpose (like hunting ethically) your a sicko either way~
My 2bobs!
Damo'

[Les Bishop]

Thank you Dennis i also have known this for some time and as bow hunters we are a smaller minority than the antis . I still remember being at a meeting in Blackwater qld in the early eighties where Sid Green begged bowhunters to stand up and be counted and to hold positions on the executive and within the branches and clubs if they wanted recognition . Which has largly been ignored except for a few inderviduals and what we see now is thankfully to there endevors even though some of it is floored but if we generally take up the challenge and as a group we may be able to achive some greater good as we have seen with the paper archers within the ABA . That is what Sid worned us aboat That we would be left out .

[looseplucker]

Dennis - your post above was the most eloquent I have ever seen - and THAT is the message that needs to be out there. In particular this phrase:

"The politics of hunting’s future will not be solved by numbers in this country. The voting system precludes that ever happening. It will be solved by our moral behaviour and our willingness to be accountable to the community for that behaviour. Animal rights groups are tiny compared to our numbers, yet the influence they have had is enormous and entirely centred on portraying themselves as fundamentally moral people and ourselves as the antithesis of morality. "

Which means that egos have to be put aside - and a common public affairs, communication and issues management strategy needs to be developed and adhered to.

Nobody got anywhere being silent. Except Helen Keller.

[TomMcDonald]

John, and Charlie Chaplin.

[looseplucker]

You should revive your Crappy Joke Book

[TomMcDonald]

[Nephew]

Our biggest problem is the way things are done today! We need money for a lobbyist. I hate it, but I think it's true! We need a Grahame Richardson ( but not Richo! Anyone but Richo!) or a Bob Carr, but with influence on both sides of Australian politics to intercede and council on our behalf to State Govts. That's how the Antis are doing it, and that's how any societal group does it these days. As I said, I hate it, but I really do think it should be at least a big part of any campaign.
How did environmentalists go from being pretty much ridiculous to the majority of Australians to having genuine influence in just 30-40 years? Well, a part of it was that they had powerful advocates who had the ears of those that influence or vote on legislation. We need equally powerful advocates, in my opinion. I REALLY hate saying this, but an Alan Jones would be just the ticket for what I'm imagining!
We will also have to accept that we would be doing this for our kids and theirs. Most of what we hope to achieve will take time, more than most of us would have I suspect.
Whatever we do, Johns right, we can no longer just be silent. So is Jeff, we will never get there if we are belligerent to the general public, or even our adversaries.
We have to set a high standard of ethics and behavior, both in hunting and daily life, so as not to allow those that would stop us ammunition to attack us in the press. We also need to be freindly and approachable to those that might question our desire and our motives to hunt. If we let ego get in the way and act all macho and alienate them by denouncing them as "Greenies" it wont do us one bit of good, that's for sure. Let them do all the attacking, let them give the impression that they are shrill, unreasonable and unwilling to accommodate anothers point of view. Just stay calm and keep repeating the positive points that support our position.That will do us more good than ten years of insults and personal slurs will. Lets face it, a lot of those people are dogmatic and self righteous and unwilling to hear any other perspectives. The more we behave well and argue our positions politely and respectfully, the more the unattractive trait of intolerance in our opponents will be highlighted.

[looseplucker]

Alan Jones would be appallingly wrong. You need a moderate voice that will be accepted within all levels of Government that is known to be a straight shooter and, most importantly, sane.

The moment Alan Jones starts advocating for hunting is the moment that the undecideds would join our opposition and I would be hanging up my bow.

[Nephew]

Well, I don't know when the last sane straight shooter got close proximity to "the power" in Australian politics!
That's not what I meant, though. Remember, I hate it too, but what I was suggesting was not THE Alan Jones, but AN Alan Jones, as in a powerful media figure that members from both sides seem to fear and therefore actually listen to.

[TomMcDonald]

I reckon someone more like a Steve Erwin would be our best bet. Respected by the mainstream (the group that matters in the situation) as someone who cares about the welfare of animals yet isn't an extremist. Alas, the stingrays had their way with him

[excelpoint]

I think one of the first things that needs attending to is our own attitudes as bowhunters. Time and time again I see posts about presenting ourselves in a better light, which mind you I whole heartedly agree with only to have more and more experienced bowhunters from our forums come in with the "Stuff em" attitude. How can we fight as a collective if as a whole we can't see past the next hunting trip?

We need to strive to convince every bowhunter that how the public sees us DOES matter, that cleaning the blood off animals or pulling arrows out before photos DOES matter or changing the way we do things to appease the public or politicians can and must be done for our way of life to survive.

Before we tackle the outside world we need to fix our own backyard first. It will do us no favors to yell and scream from the roof tops about how ethical etc we are if we continue to let those in our own ranks sabotage our efforts via their own naivety or mis-guided attitudes.

[looseplucker]

I think one of the first things that needs attending to is our own attitudes as bowhunters. Time and time again I see posts about presenting ourselves in a better light, which mind you I whole heartedly agree with only to have more and more experienced bowhunters from our forums come in with the "Stuff em" attitude. How can we fight as a collective if as a whole we can't see past the next hunting trip?

We need to strive to convince every bowhunter that how the public sees us DOES matter, that cleaning the blood off animals or pulling arrows out before photos DOES matter or changing the way we do things to appease the public or politicians can and must be done for our way of life to survive.

Before we tackle the outside world we need to fix our own backyard first. It will do us no favors to yell and scream from the roof tops about how ethical etc we are if we continue to let those in our own ranks sabotage our efforts via their own naivety or mis-guided attitudes.

Bravo! My thunks prezactly. Excel, you nailed it.

[wishsong]

Not mentioning any names but ... There are currently two high ranking members of the ALP who are mad keen hunters , one of whom is a member of Parlament and being groomed as a future leader . Whe asked by the powers that be [SSAA] if he would go into bat for the shooting sports , he openly admitted that it would electoral suicide and may eventually cost his Govt preferences with the greens ...
I fear that such a "personality " will have to come from within our own ranks as , if the USA is any indication , a strong allegiance with the shooting sports/ hunting is professional suicide , particularly ine the entertainment industry ...
Just look at how the careers of Tom Selleck, Don Johnson and Kirk Russell have taken off after publicly endorsing the shooting sports/ gun ownership and hunting ...

Our best bet will always be getting others involved . Having a well thought out plan is great , but public perception means nothing if we are so small in number that even our "allies" the SSAA finds us politically expendable .

My opinion is that behaving ethically and ensuring we are gently introducing others to the sport is the way foward to ensure that we are still able hunt with our bows .

So , time consuming as it is , introduce some others to an afternoon of stump shooting or target archery . in the end the rewards are lifelong for all invloved .

And as Matt siad . perception does matter ! But I would hope that we act in the correct way , not because we fear that we are being scrutinised , but because it is the way we actually wantto behave as custodians of this tradition and the wild places we all love so much .