Baiting ferals into shooting range

[matt61]

What do you guys think about baiting animals into shooting range.
Matt

[clinton miller]

baiting has it's place in hunting IHMO. many top end/cape york guides and hunters use cattle and/or horses as bait for pigs with great success. it's another one of those personal things, some love it, others look down their noses at those who do it. if it makes you happy.....

sometimes its fun to hunt a bait then other times i will use other hunting methods.

you would be surprised how popular it is in the states. lots of deer get shot off corn feeders or special plots of food.

it is simply a predator exploiting a known trait of its prey.
i read an article in the traditional bowhunter mag once that put forward an interesting point- "would staking out an oak tree that is dropping acorns and is a deer magnet be considered hunting over bait"

[Rock Steady]

Can not see a problem with it, there are many types of hunting.

For me a large part of the hunt is learning my prey, then finding them and finally stalking to well within my effective range. In saying that if I come across a dead animal in the scrub I will always check for any critters nearby, cats, foxes, dogs and the odd boar can be picked up this way. I will also come back and check at first light or late arvo if the opportunity is there.

Michael

[Stickbow Hunter]

For me a large part of the hunt is learning my prey, then finding them and finally stalking to well within my effective range. In saying that if I come across a dead animal in the scrub I will always check for any critters nearby, cats, foxes, dogs and the odd boar can be picked up this way. I will also come back and check at first light or late arvo if the opportunity is there.

That sums it up very well for me also.

I guess it could be argued that the above secenario is clearly baiting but I think baiting is more then that. To me baiting is purposely putting out food which is attractive to whatever game you are hunting for the sole purpose of bringing the game into the feed area where you intend to set up in ambush and that doesn't appeal to me.

Jeff

[matt61]

What about using salt licks/salt blocks that you can buy from farm suppliers to attract goats and deer within range.
Matt

[roscoe]

up here in cooktown the pigs go mad for mangoes. I have picked up all the ones that dropped under all the other trees and placed them where i wanted to shoot. Its a very effective baiting method.

[Benny Nganabbarru]

In many places, you may not ever be able to find game without using carcasses or watering points. I haven't yet been successful using carcasses. I've been either too early or too late. But, nearly all of our hunting up here centres around water, and I suppose water is a bait.

[Stickbow Hunter]

What about using salt licks/salt blocks that you can buy from farm suppliers to attract goats and deer within range.

Not for me.

Jeff

[Roadie]

Evening All, Reading the response to this, I can see it's a personal thing. Can I now throw a curved ball, What is the oponion of readers to a hunter using a posioned shaft to get their chosen game.I know of various poisions used by certain indigenious hunters. What I am asking are we allowed to, and if so would anyone use the same. In Australia there are some paralysis poisons and some downright deadly stuff. Is there any ethics or moral grounds for their use. Looking forward to any comments. Cheers Roadie.

[Stickbow Hunter]

Roadie,

I have no idea if it is legal or not but I doubt that it is. Even if it was legal I would never use poison as I bowhunt and using poison has no part in it IMO. If you place a sharp broadhead tipped arrow into the vitals of an animal they will die a quick humane death.

Jeff

[longbowinfected]

Put aside the ethics.

Heading to a whole area of hurt that you do not need to go there.....

All poisons whether medicines, pesticides or whatever have to be registered by the Australian Pesticides and Veterinary Medicines Authority. They have to undergo years of rigorous testing and screening and must do what they claim. There must be registered packaging and labelling.
There is also a national scheme of classifying poisons, Schedules 1 up o heavily restricted Schedule 7 poisons like Arsenic.

The fact that you would be using it to control or manage a beast would mean it would have to be a pesticide.

The RSPCA would put an opinion in as well as independent veterinary experts.....NO

The various state and territory Health Depts would say...... NO

The various state and territory Agriculture / DPI Depts would say...... NO

The various state and territory Environment Depts would say...... NO

The various state and territory National Park and Wildlife Depts would say...... NO

Snow flakes hope in hell.

If you want to use tranquilizer dartgun technology you need to have spcial training and licensing.....

Kevin

[longbowinfected]

Roadie,
not agin you mate. You certainly have a good eye and mind for an uncomfortable tweak in a what if ? scenario


With "baiting"
For me.....
If you use cover, ambush near carcasses, water or crops that is fair enough...you would be silly not to.It is all about awareness and bushcraft. Salt licks etc that you brought along is a no goer for me but if I saw a beast I was after having a lick at something the farmer put out for his stock that would be fair....contrary, eh? The beast is taking note of an opportunity, so am I. I guess the key for me is how natural / normal something is.

For anyone with a contrary view after much thought, enjoy your hunting, it is your choice.

Kevin

[matt61]

The reason I started this thread is on the front cover of Archery Action,the ABA magazine it shows a hunter in a
tree stand over a mob of goats around a salt block/lick.
Matt

[Roadie]

Morning All, No offence taken Kevin, just thought I would through in a curly one. Hope everyone has a great day. Cheers Roadie

[jape]

Hypocrisy is what I smell, beyond personal choice. Anything that takes a life is cruel in human terms unless you NEED to eat for survival or to clear a pest, again for survival. Beyond that it is recreation and it is killing - a personal choice (that I have taken many times in many ways of many creatures of various types).

To the prey it is final, death, hopefully fast. Don't try and tell me that the shock of an arrow in the lungs and heart doesn't matter because it is 'quick'. The prey still hurts immensely and then dies. And family, dependents and kin feel the reverberations. Happens all over the planet daily to four and two-legged beasts young an old and many, many are innocent.

Salt-licks, tree-stands, ambush, hand-to-hand. They measure the killer, the hunter not the prey.

Bullet in the brain, arrow in the lungs and heart, poisoned shaft, just tools.
Death is what we offer and from that we gain pleasure. Let us not be hypocrites as well as killers.

[longbowinfected]

Jape I find it hard to disagree. A
We as "controlling humans"/ "society" and tend to philosophise about everything whereas animals live the reality....life is harsh. I am not a black and white type guy, I do see shades of grey but believe that the glass is half full...in the main.

Seeing the shades of grey I would not like hunters to use high powered military fully automatic weapons but would be happy for legitimate pest controllers to do so.....both aspects on the face of it being direct opposites.

With poisoning after a lifetime using poisons as my primary tools I tend to be a bit more black and white. Poisoning is considered by human law to be the most heinous types of homicide.
Mainly because there is an extreme amount of planning and premeditation.
The penalties are greater too in most jurisdictions. Originally heads of state controlled these laws because many of them since Machiavelli were at great risk.

I reserve the right not to shoot on the spur of the moment....being contrary again.

There is me and one beast. Not much chance of non target damage. In some cases I cannot even get close enough for a shot.

By no means do I feel any here would use poisoned shafts. This is a discussion. It is valid and honest to discuss the difficult concepts and ethics. I hope no one reading all this though gets tempted to do something they never would have thought of. Note there is no blame in this comment.

Poisoning is a horrible way to die and most either cause a slow lingering death or at the least severe on going damage. No one in authority is going to allow common use of more efficient toxins for obvious reasons. By poisoning a shaft you might accidentally kill other than the target. Then you have the problem of the contaminated poisoned meat. A lot of potential for non target collateral damage. Then there is the risk to you and yours because you store and use the concentrate at your home. What about poisoning yourself out in the boondocks when alone?

Kevin

[jape]

Answering Tony, nothing in these posts is hypocritical Tony. I was being very general to avoid that, especially as most who post are friends of mine whom I respect. All debates about degrees of humanity or morality are to an extent hypocritical especially if one looks for justification or for those very degrees. I don't think I am hypocritical either, just a killer of other creatures!

I shall rephrase my first sentence:
Beyond personal choice, hypocrisy is what I smell.

(In other words, everyone has a right to personal choice in this as long as they do not try to delude themselves or others about what they do, beyond that is hypocritical in my view, after all bow-hunting is simply killing for pleasure and shouldn't be dressed up as anything else).

You know me, I would happily explain much further by the page-load but here I was just stating a very important point of view from a personal perspective, important enough to make me post again after many months.

[Rock Steady]

Jape

I have killed plenty of animals legally with a rifle over the years but I never took any pleasure from doing so, it was just work. I do enjoy hunting with a bow as it is a way of life for me, the part about bowhunting I like the least is the actual killing of the critter. If I could catch and release like fishing I think I would get just as much enjoyment but we will never know.

In short I do not believe you can sum bowhunting up so simply with the comment "Bow-hunting is simply killing for pleasure and shouldn't be dressed up as anything else" but this is only my opinion.

Michael

[Sparra]

Jape

I have killed plenty of animals legally with a rifle over the years but I never took any pleasure from doing so, it was just work. I do enjoy hunting with a bow as it is a way of life for me, the part about bowhunting I like the least is the actual killing of the critter. If I could catch and release like fishing I think I would get just as much enjoyment but we will never know.

In short I do not believe you can sum bowhunting up so simply with the comment "Bow-hunting is simply killing for pleasure and shouldn't be dressed up as anything else" but this is only my opinion.

Michael

I find this a little hard to comprehend,If this is true why not just take a camera instead of a bow....The whole scenario is still the same and the animal walks away afterwards...

[Rock Steady]

Sparra

For some reasons they will not pose for a photo with me whilst they still have a heartbeat .

Michael

[greybeard]

When on target and at full draw the bowhunter has taken on the role of jury, judge and executioner.

Has the thought ever crossed the bowhunters mind as to why that particular animal has to die?

If so what is the purpose of the animal’s demise?

Daryl.

THE BUFFALO WERE.doc

(32 KiB) Downloaded 52 times

[Stickbow Hunter]

To the prey it is final, death, hopefully fast. Don't try and tell me that the shock of an arrow in the lungs and heart doesn't matter because it is 'quick'. The prey still hurts immensely and then dies. And family, dependents and kin feel the reverberations. Happens all over the planet daily to four and two-legged beasts young an old and many, many are innocent.

To me that read’s just like something one would expect to see in the Animal Libbers handbook more or less making out hunters to be murderers. It is trying to make out an animal is human and capable of reasoning; I’ve been shot by an arrow I’m going to die, what about my family and loved ones, etc etc and that is just nonsense. An animal is an animal not a human being.

Actually Jape an arrow placed in the lungs of an animal causes little to no pain and results in a quick humane kill often just as fast as that of a bullet. This fact is one of the main reasons why Bowhunter’s can still legally bowhunt in many places around the world.

As hunters though we most certainly have a responsibility to ensure we only take shots at game that are probable to result in a quick humane death.

Death is what we offer and from that we gain pleasure. Let us not be hypocrites as well as killers.
…after all bow-hunting is simply killing for pleasure and shouldn't be dressed up as anything else).

For me Bowhunting is so much more then just killing. I have always said it is a way of life and involves much much more then just killing. It involves making a lot of my equipment, learning about the animals I hunt, learning bush craft skills, being out in the great Aussie bush and taking in all there is on show, taking photographs, sharing it all with family and friends and much more.

Yes, sometimes I choose to kill an animal for no other reason then the challenge, because I was able to outwit it and get within my effective Bowhunting range. Sometimes I may kill an animal for the meat, skin, horns, tusks or other trophy. Other times I just get a kick out of stalking in close and watching the game or taking a photo of it.

Anything that takes a life is cruel in human terms unless you NEED to eat for survival or to clear a pest, again for survival.

I most certainly disagree with you on this and I do not class any of my activities mentioned above as being cruel.

Lastly, I can assure you Jape that if all I got pleasure from was killing an animal I wouldn’t be a Bowhunter as there are far more easier ways to accomplish such.

Jeff

[Benny Nganabbarru]

Yeah, reading that we get pleasure from death is something I strongly disagree with. I've enjoyed the winning born of my effort, endurance, patience, practice and persistence, for sure, but never have I revelled with any form of pleasure in the actual death of an animal. It is pretty hard to explain, and even having to explain something that for thousands of years was a "given" born of common sense is something of an insult born of the weird, modern world we find ourselves in, replete with fast-food drive-throughs, air-conditioning, online-shopping, hi-definition TV, compound bows and people who don't know what nature is or how it works and make heaps of ignorant noise about their blind view. I believe that having to explain and defend what we do is as insulting as being forced to explain and defend love or honesty or breathing; however, I continue to try to explain and defend.

[Benny Nganabbarru]

By the way, I love air-conditioning, and find fast-food drive-throughs convenient at times. I have been known to indulge in a little online-shopping, too, and accept that compound bows and their owners represent the largest defence bowhunting has through sheer numbers (plus you can ride a compound just like a bike). And they tell me that I'll need some kind of new TV soon whether I like it or not - as the Good Book says, "Man cannot live without McCloud's Daughters."

[Benny Nganabbarru]

Of course, my compound-shooting mate, Shane, holds the viewpoint that tradbows look superb hanging on the wall as decorations!

[Gringa Bows]

[Rock Steady]

Of course, my compound-shooting mate, Shane, holds the viewpoint that tradbows look superb hanging on the wall as decorations!

Shane sounds like a really intelligent mate.

[Gringa Bows]

[looseplucker]

Mentoned on another thread, I don't think that I would put out bait, but if I saw game concentrating around a natural mineral deposit I would take advantage of that - similarly by hunting near water or even really good feed (which shows plenty of signs of activity).

I wouldn't put out bait deliberately though - but I know of some who regard it as ok - different strokes.

Having said that I am not the first fly fisherman to get a rise going by kicking the tussock grass on the banks of the river to get the grasshoppers and other critters moving.....but I know some dry fly purists who would have me shot for that.

[roscoe]

The practice of hunters using bait to attract animals is as old as hunting its self. I dont like to use this method alot myself, but some times its the only or best method in some circumstances. What about if we were in a great depression and we have no money to put meat on the table for our family and we are reliant on natural food for our survival? Would your own moral hunting practices shift then to baiting and the use of poison arrows? I think that a lot of our hunting ethics is based on our social and economic situations?

I think its good to raise these issues in amongst us bowhunters and its been and interesting thread.

Roscoe