fires
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Brumbies Country
- Posts: 981
- Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 9:18 pm
- Location: Yass NSW
Re: fires
Really good to hear you are OK Jape. We've been in NZ the last week and when the news broke I wondered how you were fairing.
I attended a very moving Maori ceremony for the victims of the Victorian fires while there. The Kiwis were all shocked and very supportive.
Simon
I attended a very moving Maori ceremony for the victims of the Victorian fires while there. The Kiwis were all shocked and very supportive.
Simon
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jape
Re: fires
I'm feeling a bit guilty at all the good wishes! In the end I have been lucky as the fires were away from here and the closest ones controlled quickly. So many weren't fortunate and probably a few that are a bit quieter than me on this forum have been affected. Anyway, thanks folks, it is still only halfway through summer, lets keep our fingers crossed and eyes open.
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clinton miller
- Posts: 889
- Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:51 pm
- Location: in the hills south of Stanthorpe, Qld.
Re: fires
for goodness sake i hope that the authorities have learnt something this time. BURN OFF IN AUGUST!! every two or three years there seems to be bad fires down there. greenies whinging about burning the bush! what they don't relise is that big intense bushfires can kill the trees and tradgicly people as well. burnt off country may well burn again but the tops of the trees will be there afterwards and we have more chance of controlling it. i just can't see how we can ignore this any longer. bushfires can be prevented or at least their effect can be reduced. JMO.
prayers go to victims and all affected from an aussie abroad.
clint...
prayers go to victims and all affected from an aussie abroad.
clint...
The degree of satisfaction gained from the accomplishment of a goal is directly proportional to the hardships and challenges overcome in order to achieve it.
border black douglas recurve 70# & 58# HEX6-H BB2 limbs
brigalow selfbow with rawhide string
border black douglas recurve 70# & 58# HEX6-H BB2 limbs
brigalow selfbow with rawhide string
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jape
Re: fires
If only! I spent three years working out and drawing up a fireplan for a five kilometer area which is lived in around me on the edge of state forest and a fire control plan round here, marking down lived in homes, unmapped properties and caravans and fencing (always a few, lol) hazards, routes, water courses, property lines, sheds with fuel in, dams and tanks and positions of gas containers, vehicle sheds, ammo stores etc etc with the very few locals that actually care - and against the opposition of some influential rich ones that didn't want a fire track as it would mean the public would be able to see their houses and tennis courts etc!
The DSE 'lost' the lot once but after i replaced it all and pushed my MP and finally got the greenlight they missed the viable period, then sent in two blokes who lit a couple of small fires about ten metres square then sat and chatted and smoked cigarettes for an hour or two (i watched them) and went home. They marked it down as a successful burn (it was meant to cover a four kilometer by hundred meter plus boundary strip of bush so we had something to burn our own properties to, something we all want to do but are not allowed) and they won't consider doing it again for five years. I also suggested compulsary clearing of gorse, broom and blackberry and coffee bush infestation, property markers for gateposts with hazmat warnings for fire-crews, identification of water points, upgrading of the ten years out of date (at least four times the number of properties now including families and kids) CFA maps and so on. And the placement of a couple of fire-dams designed for tanker quick-fill water replenishment.
No avail.
The DSE 'lost' the lot once but after i replaced it all and pushed my MP and finally got the greenlight they missed the viable period, then sent in two blokes who lit a couple of small fires about ten metres square then sat and chatted and smoked cigarettes for an hour or two (i watched them) and went home. They marked it down as a successful burn (it was meant to cover a four kilometer by hundred meter plus boundary strip of bush so we had something to burn our own properties to, something we all want to do but are not allowed) and they won't consider doing it again for five years. I also suggested compulsary clearing of gorse, broom and blackberry and coffee bush infestation, property markers for gateposts with hazmat warnings for fire-crews, identification of water points, upgrading of the ten years out of date (at least four times the number of properties now including families and kids) CFA maps and so on. And the placement of a couple of fire-dams designed for tanker quick-fill water replenishment.
No avail.
Re: fires
as i said before the councils and greens have a lot to answer for that said lets hope people will now tellem to stick their silly ideas and Finlay do whats right or we'll see it happen again in 20yrs time.
......nev...
......nev...
i hunt animals because they have legs and can run away ................plants dont
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jape
Re: fires
I don't hold anything against the Greens in this Nev, Jeff and others, except in some specific instances where they are taking a broad view that doesn't allow the local circumstances or experience to sway the actions. the Greens were heroes a few years back over dams and forests, don't forget that too quickly!
People are simply self-centered, lazy, complacent and immature about these issues until too late; a wise man reminded me recently that these issues have been apparent since man was first in Australia and certainly in very recent years we have had due warning with deaths and encroachments into Sydney, Canberra. What do we expect after twelve years of drought and record temperatures? Snow?
In the end it is down to US. It was my neighbours that caused and still cause the problems and despite being mainly absentee they have power and money and influence. Some of us that do make an effort are forced to give up and then we also become the problem. I reckon those neighbours would be the first to complain if they lost anything that Insurance and law suits didn't cover. I single-handedly (hobbling around with a stuffed back) put out a fire that reignited on the property of one lot a couple of days after they left and they accused me of lighting it to get my own way over the fire-plans!
The Greens are looking at reports like this, http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/newshome/5321545
and have been believing them and rying to resolve them for much longer than most of us. It is wrong to scapegoat them when looking for answers that are often close to home in truth - personal greed, ignorance, population pressure, climate change.
People are simply self-centered, lazy, complacent and immature about these issues until too late; a wise man reminded me recently that these issues have been apparent since man was first in Australia and certainly in very recent years we have had due warning with deaths and encroachments into Sydney, Canberra. What do we expect after twelve years of drought and record temperatures? Snow?
In the end it is down to US. It was my neighbours that caused and still cause the problems and despite being mainly absentee they have power and money and influence. Some of us that do make an effort are forced to give up and then we also become the problem. I reckon those neighbours would be the first to complain if they lost anything that Insurance and law suits didn't cover. I single-handedly (hobbling around with a stuffed back) put out a fire that reignited on the property of one lot a couple of days after they left and they accused me of lighting it to get my own way over the fire-plans!
The Greens are looking at reports like this, http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/newshome/5321545
and have been believing them and rying to resolve them for much longer than most of us. It is wrong to scapegoat them when looking for answers that are often close to home in truth - personal greed, ignorance, population pressure, climate change.
Re: fires
jape,
no offense meant, and this post is not all directed at you, it is more just my feelings on these issues. but what do you mean when you say greens are heros re. dams???
as a nation we could do with a lot more dams. sure they have an enviromental impact but we are water short. a balance needs to be found between environmental impact and practicality, reasonability and sustainablity. three words i'm not sure greens have ever heard or understood.
of course enviro impact studies need to be done before dams and the like are put in place, and these need to be thorough and taken seriously, but without more water we will be sending a few of our own first fleets back to britain or whereever we can find water to support our thirsty population.
were i grew up (goulburn valley) we were fed from eildon weir via the goulbourn river and its channel systems. the goulburn valley is called, or at least was called, the 'fruit bowl of the WORLD'. that doesn't happen without water. in the previous 15 or so years of drouts we have seen our water reservoiurs depleated. that has an impact. i'm sure i don't have to tell anyone that fruit/vege don't grow on coles/safeway shelves, and nor does milk or steak.
then in just the past five years (and i will say for 'political reason'... that is 'VOTES') our water catchment have been linked to bendigo, ballarat and even worse, melbourne via huge pipes, because of their water shortages. where some six million voters live. its a pitty our fruit trees, tomato plants and dairy cows can't vote!
to make it worse, farmers are required to continue to pay for the water they are not allocated in these dry times, not allowed to use, at the very same time it is being piped off to other areas.
green views are important, i would never say otherwise, especially with climate change hanging around like a bad smell. but i feel they take things too far in regards to dams, controlled burns, hunting, and a few other little bits and pieces. forcing laws and regulations that effect others in utterly unneccesary and unfair ways. often because they get the support of, forgive me, unknowledged city people (numbers). that is people that haven't been amoungst, and lived in and with the issues that are being dicussed argued and debated.
now i say, back burn, control burn and do it often. our land has been periodically burnt for 10's of thousands of years by our native inhabitants. those thousands of flora and fauna that were at risk from the effects of bush fires were made extinct by the aboriginals many thousands of years ago. whats left handle fire quite well. infact fire can help many of our native flora, in cracking open their seed pods, readying them for germination. we still have koalas and liar birds and a most beautiful country. we can handle controlled fires. furthermore, burning regularly, sees fire have less heat and intensity, and being smaller and less wide spread. factors that do start to cause problems. environmental problems as well as the like we've seen in the last week.
now i'm just throwing my feelings on this out there. but the only heroic thing i can think of that some over-the-top greenies could do, is swim lead belts to antarctica!
otis...
no offense meant, and this post is not all directed at you, it is more just my feelings on these issues. but what do you mean when you say greens are heros re. dams???
as a nation we could do with a lot more dams. sure they have an enviromental impact but we are water short. a balance needs to be found between environmental impact and practicality, reasonability and sustainablity. three words i'm not sure greens have ever heard or understood.
of course enviro impact studies need to be done before dams and the like are put in place, and these need to be thorough and taken seriously, but without more water we will be sending a few of our own first fleets back to britain or whereever we can find water to support our thirsty population.
were i grew up (goulburn valley) we were fed from eildon weir via the goulbourn river and its channel systems. the goulburn valley is called, or at least was called, the 'fruit bowl of the WORLD'. that doesn't happen without water. in the previous 15 or so years of drouts we have seen our water reservoiurs depleated. that has an impact. i'm sure i don't have to tell anyone that fruit/vege don't grow on coles/safeway shelves, and nor does milk or steak.
then in just the past five years (and i will say for 'political reason'... that is 'VOTES') our water catchment have been linked to bendigo, ballarat and even worse, melbourne via huge pipes, because of their water shortages. where some six million voters live. its a pitty our fruit trees, tomato plants and dairy cows can't vote!
to make it worse, farmers are required to continue to pay for the water they are not allocated in these dry times, not allowed to use, at the very same time it is being piped off to other areas.
green views are important, i would never say otherwise, especially with climate change hanging around like a bad smell. but i feel they take things too far in regards to dams, controlled burns, hunting, and a few other little bits and pieces. forcing laws and regulations that effect others in utterly unneccesary and unfair ways. often because they get the support of, forgive me, unknowledged city people (numbers). that is people that haven't been amoungst, and lived in and with the issues that are being dicussed argued and debated.
now i say, back burn, control burn and do it often. our land has been periodically burnt for 10's of thousands of years by our native inhabitants. those thousands of flora and fauna that were at risk from the effects of bush fires were made extinct by the aboriginals many thousands of years ago. whats left handle fire quite well. infact fire can help many of our native flora, in cracking open their seed pods, readying them for germination. we still have koalas and liar birds and a most beautiful country. we can handle controlled fires. furthermore, burning regularly, sees fire have less heat and intensity, and being smaller and less wide spread. factors that do start to cause problems. environmental problems as well as the like we've seen in the last week.
now i'm just throwing my feelings on this out there. but the only heroic thing i can think of that some over-the-top greenies could do, is swim lead belts to antarctica!
otis...
...otis...
Re: fires
i agree otis but to add a globlewarming is a mith if you can show me actual proof and so far no one has i mite change my idears
i hunt animals because they have legs and can run away ................plants dont
Re: fires
Kirrille,
it is a well discussed topic to say the least. personally i can't see how we are not affecting this planet with our polution... only time will tell. hopefully if it is glabal warming we catch it in time.
i want my kids to see this wonderful country the way it is now.
otis...
it is a well discussed topic to say the least. personally i can't see how we are not affecting this planet with our polution... only time will tell. hopefully if it is glabal warming we catch it in time.
i want my kids to see this wonderful country the way it is now.
otis...
...otis...
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jape
Re: fires
Otis I was talking about the Green movement when in Tasmania and Daintree I think, it saved a lot of stuff from hydro dams and so on, I could be very wrong about facts, my apology as my historical recollection is weak because I ahve only seen old news material but I was making a broader point about blame and as you accept, the larger issues.
Nev, the jury is still out but overall global opinion of scientists and even governments seems to be finally accepting that global warming is a fact, just that until it fully develops (pehaps catastrophically and without any redress possible) we will not know how it will affect us. It is far too important an issue to leave for future generations and the latest suggestions, as in that news report, are that technology and existing plans will not be able to stop it past a point. Also that it is already worse than even the scientists that believe in it have predicted. That would be global disaster and way beyond local or regional ability to fix themselves, unless all relevant parameters are known or mapped. In the end, it will be great local changes, perhaps of lifestyle and agricultural and transport and power production that fix the mess but they will have to be integrated worldwide and they will have to be soon.
I believe the intensity of these fires at the very least, and the immediate capability or lack of capability to fight them illustrates at least one small area we have to fix global warming or not if we don't want to see further great tragedy. It is perhaps difficult to discuss these things without seeming dispassionate and cold while the emotion is so high and the grief so close for so many, but we HAVE to, it is still summer and next year is, well, only a year away!
Nev, the jury is still out but overall global opinion of scientists and even governments seems to be finally accepting that global warming is a fact, just that until it fully develops (pehaps catastrophically and without any redress possible) we will not know how it will affect us. It is far too important an issue to leave for future generations and the latest suggestions, as in that news report, are that technology and existing plans will not be able to stop it past a point. Also that it is already worse than even the scientists that believe in it have predicted. That would be global disaster and way beyond local or regional ability to fix themselves, unless all relevant parameters are known or mapped. In the end, it will be great local changes, perhaps of lifestyle and agricultural and transport and power production that fix the mess but they will have to be integrated worldwide and they will have to be soon.
I believe the intensity of these fires at the very least, and the immediate capability or lack of capability to fight them illustrates at least one small area we have to fix global warming or not if we don't want to see further great tragedy. It is perhaps difficult to discuss these things without seeming dispassionate and cold while the emotion is so high and the grief so close for so many, but we HAVE to, it is still summer and next year is, well, only a year away!
Re: fires
jape,
i'm glad they never put a space station in the rainforest east coast cape york. this is where the greenies are tolerable for me. the palm cockatoo is a beautiful creature and the area they looked at was one of its main strongholds, along with other magnificent birds like the rifle bird and parrots like the eclectus(spelling). the iron range area around lockhart river cape york is a treasure not to be given away to nasa or anyone else.
climate change, changing our way of life..., thinking about a life of growing your own produce to feed oneself and living a humble existance, self sustaining, building your own dwellings, cattle, sheep, horse transport, almost sounds a romantic change. but surely it would be a tough, non stop battle, with non of the luxuries we have today. lets hope we find a happy medium where we and the enviro can coexist. sustainably.
otis...
i'm glad they never put a space station in the rainforest east coast cape york. this is where the greenies are tolerable for me. the palm cockatoo is a beautiful creature and the area they looked at was one of its main strongholds, along with other magnificent birds like the rifle bird and parrots like the eclectus(spelling). the iron range area around lockhart river cape york is a treasure not to be given away to nasa or anyone else.
climate change, changing our way of life..., thinking about a life of growing your own produce to feed oneself and living a humble existance, self sustaining, building your own dwellings, cattle, sheep, horse transport, almost sounds a romantic change. but surely it would be a tough, non stop battle, with non of the luxuries we have today. lets hope we find a happy medium where we and the enviro can coexist. sustainably.
otis...
...otis...
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jape
Re: fires
I truly hope we can Otis but if part of the structure falls, as with this financial crisis, everything is so interconnected and reliant on technology these days we would lose medicine, travel and social order too quickly. Society let alone the environment is very fragile these days and we are really living on a knife edge. I hope my pessimism is not true but I sometimes think we are at the beginning of the end and I am beginning to lose hope. Maybe just getting older and grumpier with my own problems!
otis.drum wrote:jape,
i'm glad they never put a space station in the rainforest east coast cape york. this is where the greenies are tolerable for me. the palm cockatoo is a beautiful creature and the area they looked at was one of its main strongholds, along with other magnificent birds like the rifle bird and parrots like the eclectus(spelling). the iron range area around lockhart river cape york is a treasure not to be given away to nasa or anyone else.
climate change, changing our way of life..., thinking about a life of growing your own produce to feed oneself and living a humble existance, self sustaining, building your own dwellings, cattle, sheep, horse transport, almost sounds a romantic change. but surely it would be a tough, non stop battle, with non of the luxuries we have today. lets hope we find a happy medium where we and the enviro can coexist. sustainably.
otis...
Re: fires
is that why the globe has cooled in the last 10 years but we have put [china and india ] 100's of times more carbon in the air than before no jape thousands of scientists are actualy doing a group action against gore and sueing him for fraud also the hottest day in melb feb 6 1851 47.2 as reported by the argus news paper green house gasses grown 3.7 % between 2000 and 2007 yet the earth has cooled in the last 10 years hottest victorian day was mildura 1906 it reached 50.07 so dont tell me globle warming had anything to do with it .
......nev.....
......nev.....
i hunt animals because they have legs and can run away ................plants dont
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jape
Re: fires
Well it is 2800 hectares + now and still 12.5 km away to the SW with a southerly wind at present - helicopters all over the place - the cooler weather is helping a bit despite the winds gusting so it is spotting just a km or so, not like the other day when it was 15 km. I got ash fall briefly yesterday arvo but the wind was too light to carry embers. Those guys are incredible, the CFA map on the updates page shows they stopped it on a 5km long straight line right on the edge of the forest, bloody amazing! If it had or still does get into there, it is full of small communities and would be impossible to stop. Fingers crossed still.
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jape
Re: fires
Thanks Craig, I'm no hero. Usually I wouldn't worry about fires a few kilometres away but after the recent events you can't be sure, you have to sit up and watch the websites and listen to the radio (even if for a while they were saying the fires was ten kilometres from the actual place). A couple of firies got burnt lungs and they lost a tanker, that is very real too. Still got March to go, lets hope for good rains soon, in the end that is all that settles it.
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Stickbow Hunter
- Supporter
- Posts: 11637
- Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 8:33 pm
- Location: Maryborough Queensland
Re: fires
Let's hope they get it under control and you get some rain down that way. Stay safe.
Jeff
Jeff
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stringnstik
- Posts: 1106
- Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:09 pm
- Location: Cranbourne
Re: fires
Thinking of you and all the others that are on this knife edge.
"I am the arrow..the arrow is me...together as one...I fly to thee"
"the stick maybe crooked and the string hath no form,
then married by bowyer, transforms when first drawn"
"twang....thud"
"the stick maybe crooked and the string hath no form,
then married by bowyer, transforms when first drawn"
"twang....thud"