fires

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jape

fires

#1 Post by jape » Sun Feb 08, 2009 1:32 pm

Some of the good folk from here have been kind enough to enquire how I am with these fires - I am well and the nearest was 20km away this time but I sat awake most of the night because of the terrible situation that was developing and because of thunder and lightning strikes. I can't believe so many have been killed! It is unthinkable in this day and age that it can still happen. I am not going to go on about it or my situation, in the face of the reality still unfolding for so many I am just praying for the well being of those hurt, the loved ones of those killed and for the continued safety of all in the days to come.

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Re: fires

#2 Post by Stickbow Hunter » Sun Feb 08, 2009 1:48 pm

Glad to hear you are ok mate, take care.
Jeff

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Re: fires

#3 Post by Al Kidner » Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:01 pm

Fires in the south and floods in the north... what a country we live in. My prayers are with all those that have been lost and there families.



ak.

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Re: fires

#4 Post by Gringa Bows » Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:19 pm

yes it is good you are ok mate, i'de hate to be in your situation hope you get decent rain soon.............Rod

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Re: fires

#5 Post by piggy » Sun Feb 08, 2009 3:03 pm

It's a terrible thing for those that have lost so much, the fires are near my place and I know a few who have lost everything, house, sheds and stock but at least they are still alive.

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Re: fires

#6 Post by Benny Nganabbarru » Sun Feb 08, 2009 3:20 pm

>>>>----------------->
It's the great, big, broad land 'way up yonder,
It's the forests where silence has lease;
It's the beauty that thrills me with wonder,
It's the stillness that fills me with peace.

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Re: fires

#7 Post by Steven J » Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:12 pm

I kept this post open for a while now wondering how to reply. I really don't know what to add except to say that I am praying for all those fighting the fires and those that have lost their homes and loved ones.

Steve
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Re: fires

#8 Post by Jaydo » Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:45 pm

take care mate, and shout out if you need anything yeah ?
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Re: fires

#9 Post by woody » Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:09 pm

I know floods arent real good, but I can swim.........what do you do when caught in a fire front.

I was coming down the Hume Highway Saturday and saw the smoke haze up ahead. Turned the radio on, and worked out I would be behind the fire front on the way home, but it was a worry.

Where I turned off at Broadford to cut across country to Ballarat, was where the police were diverting Melbourne bound traffic.....

I think the courts are too soft on firebugs, they are commiting murder, and should be locked up with all the other homicidal nut cases, never to put the public at risk again.

I feel sorry for those who have lost loved ones..........
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Re: fires

#10 Post by jcm » Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:33 pm

Good to hear you are okay.
A prayer for all .
John

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Re: fires

#11 Post by shikari » Mon Feb 09, 2009 2:50 am

Glad to hear that you are ok Jape,My prayers go out for all those affected and for the families of those who have lost loved ones to this catastrophie.
P.J.

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Re: fires

#12 Post by nimrod » Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:41 am

guys really not sure what to say :shock: hope that they can put them out ASAP hope no one here suffers any losses am not a god fearing man but my thoughts are with you all hugh

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Re: fires

#13 Post by stringnstik » Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:49 am

Its truly awakening when you here of these things so close. We were travelling back from Ringwood late Saturday and had to detour as the flames flicked across the Sth Gippy Hwy. Which is just up the road from where we live.Nothing like the fire fronts otheres have had to contend with but devastating all the same.
Prayers are with all those effected and that it ends real soon.
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Re: fires

#14 Post by CM Sackett » Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:04 am

If a Yank's love and empathy for you fellas had any real power in this tragedy... the flames would be out.

Sorry (in the bones) for all who have lost... anything. If I were closer, I wouldn't be typing... I'd be grabbing a sharpshooter (shovel) or manning a sandwich station, or something.


Sackett
"The cost of Freedom tends to run very high. The cost of Apathy... incalculable."

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Re: fires

#15 Post by White Hawk » Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:23 am

the devistation is horrendous, Kinglake GONE, Marysville GONE, and so many others too.
so many lives distroyed, so much tragedy. 108 dead and rising all within the space of a few hours on the weekend.

But in the true Aussie spirit it has also brought out the 'local hero' in so many, the spirit of mateship and the community spirit of the bush. Most of these people will never be publically aknowledged but how lucky are we all that they risk so much to aid others?

Makes me damn proud to be an Aussie. Nev has posted details of how to contribute dontations to the fire vitcims on another post on ozbow, a small thing we can all do to help these people in their darkest hour.

Gav
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The spiritual man seeks the nothingness it surrounds
The complete man understands they are the same

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Re: fires

#16 Post by BowDonkey » Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:08 pm

So sorry for this tragedy. Especially for those who have been injured and who have lost loved ones.
SNAKE HATER & HORSERADISH LOVER

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Re: fires

#17 Post by Nephew » Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:48 pm

The bastards that lit these fires should be sentenced to the rising of the court, then made to leave the building. They wouldn't make it 50 mts before they were lynched! :evil: I just cannot get my mind around the kind of hatred it takes to commit such an act of Terrorism! And that's what it is, Terrorism. There should be a way to charge them under Terrorism laws.
The horror is just too much. Kids shouldn't die this way. :cry:
Lately, if life were treating me any better, I'd be suspicious of it's motives!

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Re: fires

#18 Post by gundy » Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:51 pm

Moreton, if it was indeed arson, I hope they make an example out of them for doing what they did - in the harshest manner possible. Its murder, plain and simple.

Life in prison is too good of a penalty.

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Re: fires

#19 Post by Buford » Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:26 am

I have friends in Echuca (couple hours north of melbourne) where i used to live who are in the CFA. They were sent to assist in the fire fighting effort, i'm not sure where exactly, but they said in one instance they were watching a front bbeing blown up a grass slope, not a steep hill or anything, just a gentle slope, and it was moving at about 20 k's per hour!!

I shudder to think of what it would have been like in thick tree'd areas with a wall of flame 30m high moving at you at that speed.........How the hell do you stop that :o

The latest I hear (according to the news) is the police think its multiple arsonists. I arrest and on other suspect so far? I could be wrong.
Stupid TV! Be more funny!

jape

Re: fires

#20 Post by jape » Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:02 am

It is indeed murder. These sorts of people are not rational in any sense you or I could understand, it is obsessive and perverse and has little thought of consequence. Something doesn't develop in them and that stops them short of being empathic humans that can feel what they do. There's quite a few about but fortunately most are self-destructive rather than turn it against others or into an irrational pleasure or reward. They are sick, not terrorists or criminals in an ordinary sense. Lynch mobs are not the answer, never were and never will be - that is an expression of fear and anger that is again ruled by destructive behaviour. I understand the emotions behind it but the answer is far simpler. Dig a hole, stand them in front of it and I will put a bullet in their brain.

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Re: fires

#21 Post by Steven J » Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:46 am

See the attached PDF. Coles is donating their profits from Friday to the bushfire appeal. If you can bring your shopping day forward, or hold off until Friday you can help to add to the total raised.

Steve
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jape

Re: fires

#22 Post by jape » Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:04 am

We are all so arrogant! We live our lives and consume and want and work and fight and believe we are powerful, then we find out we are not. Rudd said it well, this brown land is now black and we are shown how fragile the gift of life is. We are also shown how heroic and caring some can be.

I hope from this tragedy we will find ways to live with the land that are less destructive and ways to live as neighbours that are supportive. Lets try and make these wonderful expressions of the best in humanity in the face of the worst, long-term and creative. All too soon, and the signs are there, it will political bickering and blame and bastards setting up scams and looting the rubble.

I have sat and felt all this for days now. It hasn't ended yet but we have to find ways to live with this new reality of firestorms and drought.

I am looking for one small part of the solution, fire-proof ways to seal the open gap between corrugated iron roofs and the flat metal of the eaves and ridge. Ideas wanted.

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Re: fires

#23 Post by gt1cm2 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:49 am

Just wanted to say that there is a lot of people in NZ that are thinking of the people effected by the fires in Victoria. Such a horrible ordeal to cope with for both human and animal. My husband was shocked to see pictures on the net of the Pakenham area in smoke, he was working in that area a few years ago so seeing places he knew ablaze was rather upsetting.

I hope some decent rain comes soon!

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Re: fires

#24 Post by Steven J » Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:54 am

Jape,

I agree that everyone must be called to account for their actions. Anyone found guilty of these crimes deserves proper punishment. I put that in bold so no one confuses the matter and assumes that I think that these people should be allowed to walk free.

You may not agree with me but this is how I see it...

Each of us must find forgiveness for the people who have lit these fires. Hanging onto hatred will only eat us up. Forgiving these people empowers us to deal with our emotions, an then in turn to deal positively with the situation that has occurred.

It is not easy to forgive
, however those that fail to forgive, become victims of the person / disaster long after the physical pain or danger has past.

Forgiveness is not making light of the situation. We can't say 'it doesn't really matter' because that is being dishonest with ourselves. To forgive means that we let go of the debt owed by the perpetrators of these crimes.

I don't think it works to repay hatred with further hatred. If we do then we ourselves are no better than they.

Just my thoughts.

Steve

PS. Jape, I am glad you are exploring solutions to some of the vulnerability built into our houses.
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On Christ the solid rock I stand, All other ground is sinking sand. Edward Mote, 1797-1874

jape

Re: fires

#25 Post by jape » Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:20 am

Steven J wrote: To forgive means that we let go of the debt owed by the perpetrators of these crimes. I don't think it works to repay hatred with further hatred.
Steven, I deeply agree with most of what you say, I was arguing against the mob and lynch type of response myself. I also agree that forgiveness of this sort is enlightened for the victims (we are all victims of this in small ways) and it aids the principal victims in moving ahead and aids us in constructing a better society.

I think Kevin Rudd when he said they should rot in jail sends the wrong message. Why support them in life however restrained or caged? It is a further cost to the community and society. Try as I do, I am unable to see imprisonment as a viable alternative to the morally harder but simpler and less costly solution. I know they are sick but they have also done great harm. Even if redemption and some redress were possible for them the balance would suggest that they are simply removed - dispassionately, not with hatred. I could do it and it wouldn't harm my soul.

I hope the mob doesn't howl here.

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Re: fires

#26 Post by Nephew » Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:54 am

I totally understand the perspectives both you blokes have, and respect them. I can't help but wonder though if the lynch mob is always bad, y'know? I know the association with relatively recent history is horrible, but maybe in this case it's not only a form of natural justice, but also catharsis for those that have lost the lot? Of course, the act of forgiveness benefits the forgiver as much as the forgiven, but there are things that are unforgivable, yeah?
I apologise for this example, but roasting families alive in their cars while they flee in terror is surely amongst them, along with the other terrors it would be best not to mention.
I can't imagine we can rehabilitate such a creature as would do this, they must be removed for the safety of all, why not allow the afflicted the catharsis they so richly deserve?
I know, I really do, that this is an extreme response, but surely this is an extreme crime that requires taking paths we would normally shun?
Lately, if life were treating me any better, I'd be suspicious of it's motives!

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Re: fires

#27 Post by Steven J » Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:06 pm

Jape,

Nice to know we are on the same page.

I didn't hear Kevin say that they should rot in jail. I am surprised that he was not a little more diplomatic.

Steve
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On Christ the solid rock I stand, All other ground is sinking sand. Edward Mote, 1797-1874

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Re: fires

#28 Post by kerrille » Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:16 pm

next to the firebugs the lowest form of life is the looter and heard on the radio that there moving in i hope they're shot on site.


...nev...
i hunt animals because they have legs and can run away ................plants dont

jape

Re: fires

#29 Post by jape » Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:22 pm

I moved here and bought a block of land on the edge of the bush and built on it, coming from UK it was heaven and a dream for a bloke with a young wife and kid!

No-one ever mentioned fire danger to me! Not once, the Local Government planners that passed my plans, the adviors that saw them to OK the building loan, my neighbours, building contractors. No-one. I had no idea whatsoever.

I proudly built a small inexpensive house by myself for my then wife and kids with wooden walls ( I started in stone but smashed my back shortly after that, working on the roof) and with a tin roof in a small clearing on the edge of 35 km of bush and they told me I could only clear a house-block size patch. They wouldn't let me put in a dam either as it would take runoff from the water course (nonexistent except in one year in twenty). Since then they have told me I may not cut another tree down, may not burn off and may not clear a fire escape or firebreak round the block. The DSE adviser I kept badgering told me to plant wattles densely all around close to the house as a spark barrier ... but I after I did that I saw them burn like torches when I was in the CFA and quickly rooted them out, I have to clear dozens every year now as they come back on me ...

After a few years of fighting and petitioning DSE and MP's I got a firetrack cut through the bush nearby but the neighbours didn't like it and since then do not speak to me, it was also moved from the property lines where I wanted it into the bush a hundred meters so we still have acres of tinder on our boundaries, a three meter overgrown track and then kilometers of unburnt fuel.

Most neighbours do not clear away the solid acres of blackberry, broom, gorse and coffee bush that forms the undergrowth and lines the tracks and our only exit road. I have struggled to keep on top of it on my place but have failed in the last couple of years because of my injuries.

At times like this I regret every penny I ever spent on archery, clothes, entertainment and books, I should have purchased another water tank, a backup pump, sprinklers instead of the 'cobbled together' attempts I have made. I am not really very practical, more of a dreamer, but I do try.

'Normal' fires I could have tried to stop and to save the house. But in any year a bad fire would take it of course. I decided this year that if a fire came I would just leave, a tent is in the car and my chainsaw in case I have to cut a route out (as I did a couple of weeks ago when the nearest fire got going). I live alone, I can afford to gamble a little but the lesson of these latest fires is also that no-one saw them and they moved extra fast and turned. Communications in the bush are poor, mobiles do not work, UHF is limited, power goes out often and always in the fires, neighbours are often absentee owners.

The website, TV and radio information was almost nonexistent and at times wrong and dangerous. I listened most of Saturday night and since and ir is still pretty poor.

I have also tried to get the roofing manufacturers to suggests answers to obvious flaws in design like the meeting of corrugations to flat metal and all they offered was an expensive foamed plastic strip!

Frankly no-one should be allowed to live here, but then of course the margins would just be elsewhere and the problem would still arise. So building codes should include less flammable design, fire-dams, fire sprinkler systems, two exits routes, non-electric pumps and even fire bunkers. Community fire codes should insist developers (often local councillors) include power, firebreaks, wider made-up roads, exit routes, fire dams and perhaps a siren system like the old british air raid sirens. But they don't. Scrape a few paths into the trees, place a few pegs, make a million. That is the Australian way. Sorry but it is true, so far.

And I do believe climate change is in some ways exacerbating the complex conditions. Some folk will die every year, that is cold reality in the bush. I won't be one of them if I can help it but I know neighbours and friends will unless something real is done and some hard constructive thinking put in at all levels. It won't happen though, want a bet?

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Re: fires

#30 Post by kerrille » Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:37 pm

not having greens up here has helped a lot ,that and not taking any notice of them ,although they are now locking big areas of land now we are getting worried ,hopefully this might change a few minds but after a few years who knows as far as global change goes it been hotter up here and only a fraction cooler than Saturday in melb it was freakish weather not burning of and arsonists that caused this.


......nev...
i hunt animals because they have legs and can run away ................plants dont

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