Grey beard and I have finished the Traditional Shoot rules brought about in a thread started by Chasin Nocks -Do we need seperate Recurve and Longbow divisions .
Going to different Traditional shoots around the place I have noticed a degree of confusion and wide range of definitions with Traditional archery equipoment , this confused many archers who where placed in different divisions from shoot to shoot .Traditional Shoots will still maintain there unique character if these rules are adopted as they have no impact on format
We have decided to adopt these for the North Albert and Caboolture Traditional shoots and hope that other Traditional shoots about the country will adopt them .
Let us know if you think we goofed or need further explanation of why we took a particular decision . We are happy with these rules but are not against future changes . regards Perry
Note : I deleted the rules I posted because they did not appear in an easily read format , my computor crashed at the moment it posted guess that had something to do with it .
GREYBEARD HAS KINDLY POSTED THEM A COUPLE OF POSTS FURTHER DOWN
New Traditional Shoot rules
Moderator: Moderators
New Traditional Shoot rules
Last edited by perry on Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"To my deep morticication my father once said to me, 'You care for nothing but shooting, dogs and rat catching, and you will be a disgrace to yourself and all your family.' "
- Charles Darwin
- Charles Darwin
-
longbow steve
- Posts: 3116
- Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 3:29 pm
- Location: BLUE MOUNTAINS
Good Morning Perry
Excellent.
A small question. What is an adjustable riser?? I shoot an older Yamaha Eolla and it has no lateral adjustment on the limbs unlike newer risers. So where does it sit?
You are bound top get several questions like this just to get a clarification as users interprept what your intention is.
Well done.
Excellent.
A small question. What is an adjustable riser?? I shoot an older Yamaha Eolla and it has no lateral adjustment on the limbs unlike newer risers. So where does it sit?
You are bound top get several questions like this just to get a clarification as users interprept what your intention is.
Well done.
Grahame.
Shoot a Selfbow, embrace Wood Arrows, discover Vintage, be a Trendsetter.
"Unfortunately, the equating of simplicity with truth doesn't often work in real life. It doesn't often work in science, either." Dr Len Fisher.
Shoot a Selfbow, embrace Wood Arrows, discover Vintage, be a Trendsetter.
"Unfortunately, the equating of simplicity with truth doesn't often work in real life. It doesn't often work in science, either." Dr Len Fisher.
-
The Gnome!
Hi Chris,
I must apologize for not taking into account Bandits situation or others that may have a physical disability.
Most sane people would understand that when formulating rules it is virtually impossible to cover all contingencies.
Situations will arise where COMMON SENSE WILL PREVAIL.
In the true spirit in which the rules were written the device Bandit uses should not be compared to a hand held release aid.
Daryl.
I must apologize for not taking into account Bandits situation or others that may have a physical disability.
Most sane people would understand that when formulating rules it is virtually impossible to cover all contingencies.
Situations will arise where COMMON SENSE WILL PREVAIL.
In the true spirit in which the rules were written the device Bandit uses should not be compared to a hand held release aid.
Daryl.
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken. [Ascham]
“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]
I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken. [Ascham]
“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]
I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....
-
The Gnome!
Daryl,greybeard wrote:Hi Chris,
I must apologize for not taking into account Bandits situation or others that may have a physical disability.
Most sane people would understand that when formulating rules it is virtually impossible to cover all contingencies.
Situations will arise where COMMON SENSE WILL PREVAIL.
In the true spirit in which the rules were written the device Bandit uses should not be compared to a hand held release aid.
Daryl.
Thanks for clearing the air on this, I did think that that would be the case.
Losty,
I will give Bandit the saw and hold you down while she cuts but then again she may get me too 
-
Brumbies Country
- Posts: 981
- Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 9:18 pm
- Location: Yass NSW
Hi,
Perry has requested that I post the document as some people have had problems opening the file. Perrys computer has spat the dummy.
Daryl.
TRADITIONAL / PRIMITIVE DIVISION.
The purpose of this division is to promote and preserve the cultural and historically significant bows of the pre fibreglass era.
Selfbows, Horn and Sinew Composites, Cable backed bows, Penobscot bows, laminated Bamboo and other natural material Composites are allowed.
There is no separation of straight limbed, recurved or composite bows.
Arrow shelves cut into the handle of the bow are not permitted unless it is a historically accurate reproduction.
Leather pads or similar built up and glued to the handle are permitted.
The use of natural string materials and glues is encouraged.
No modern materials shall be used in the bows construction with the exception of modern glues.
Modern string materials are permitted.
A Selfbow shall be defined as a bow whose limb mass is of one piece of wood or other historically correct material.
MODERN LONGBOW DIVISION.
A one piece or takedown bow that is either flat laid, reflexed or deflex reflexed with fibreglass and / or carbon fibre as back, belly or core laminations.
The bow can be shot off the shelf or from an elevated rest adhered to the sight window.
Only one nocking point is allowed.
The string can only touch the limbs at the string nocks.
In the case of a bow being cut past 1/8th from centreshot a pad of leather or similar shall be used to bring a bow back to 1/8th from centreshot.
Straight or contoured grips are permissible.
MODERN RECURVE DIVISION.
A one piece or takedown bow with fibreglass and /or carbon fibre back, belly or core laminations.
The bow can be shot off the shelf or from an elevated arrow rest adhered to the sight window.
Only one nocking point is allowed.
Adjustable or mechanical arrow rests are not permitted.
Plunger buttons are not permitted.
In the case of a bow being cut past 1/8th from centreshot a pad of leather of similar shall be used to bring the bow back to 1/8th from centreshot.
Recurves with a standard metal riser are allowed. Adjustable riser bows are not permitted.
ARROWS.
Wood Arrows and feathers only are to be used in all divisions. There are no restrictions on the feather length, point weight or the adhesives used in there construction. In the Traditional / Primitive division the use of historic methods of arrow construction is encouraged.
RELEASE METHOD.
A Glove, Tab or bare fingers.
Although the Mediterranean release [split fingers] may be the accepted style, two or 3 under is permissible.
A single anchor point only will be used.
Mechanical releases are not permitted.
Period specific thumb rings are permitted when used with historically accurate / reproduction bows.
String Walking is not permitted.
Perry has requested that I post the document as some people have had problems opening the file. Perrys computer has spat the dummy.
Daryl.
TRADITIONAL / PRIMITIVE DIVISION.
The purpose of this division is to promote and preserve the cultural and historically significant bows of the pre fibreglass era.
Selfbows, Horn and Sinew Composites, Cable backed bows, Penobscot bows, laminated Bamboo and other natural material Composites are allowed.
There is no separation of straight limbed, recurved or composite bows.
Arrow shelves cut into the handle of the bow are not permitted unless it is a historically accurate reproduction.
Leather pads or similar built up and glued to the handle are permitted.
The use of natural string materials and glues is encouraged.
No modern materials shall be used in the bows construction with the exception of modern glues.
Modern string materials are permitted.
A Selfbow shall be defined as a bow whose limb mass is of one piece of wood or other historically correct material.
MODERN LONGBOW DIVISION.
A one piece or takedown bow that is either flat laid, reflexed or deflex reflexed with fibreglass and / or carbon fibre as back, belly or core laminations.
The bow can be shot off the shelf or from an elevated rest adhered to the sight window.
Only one nocking point is allowed.
The string can only touch the limbs at the string nocks.
In the case of a bow being cut past 1/8th from centreshot a pad of leather or similar shall be used to bring a bow back to 1/8th from centreshot.
Straight or contoured grips are permissible.
MODERN RECURVE DIVISION.
A one piece or takedown bow with fibreglass and /or carbon fibre back, belly or core laminations.
The bow can be shot off the shelf or from an elevated arrow rest adhered to the sight window.
Only one nocking point is allowed.
Adjustable or mechanical arrow rests are not permitted.
Plunger buttons are not permitted.
In the case of a bow being cut past 1/8th from centreshot a pad of leather of similar shall be used to bring the bow back to 1/8th from centreshot.
Recurves with a standard metal riser are allowed. Adjustable riser bows are not permitted.
ARROWS.
Wood Arrows and feathers only are to be used in all divisions. There are no restrictions on the feather length, point weight or the adhesives used in there construction. In the Traditional / Primitive division the use of historic methods of arrow construction is encouraged.
RELEASE METHOD.
A Glove, Tab or bare fingers.
Although the Mediterranean release [split fingers] may be the accepted style, two or 3 under is permissible.
A single anchor point only will be used.
Mechanical releases are not permitted.
Period specific thumb rings are permitted when used with historically accurate / reproduction bows.
String Walking is not permitted.
Last edited by greybeard on Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken. [Ascham]
“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]
I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken. [Ascham]
“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]
I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....
-
Mick Smith
- Posts: 4957
- Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:09 pm
- Location: Surf Coast Victoria
These rules seem straightforward and reasonable to me.
I know that down this way in Victoria, there has been a move away from having multiple divisions. The reasons for this, I believe, were mainly because of the very low numbers involved in some divisions and the sometimes ludicrus situation arose where trophies were handed out simply because there were so few competitors in that division, all they had to do was to turn up at the event. I believe another reason for the introduction of the latest Victorian ruling was simply a desire to keep things simple. It was agreed to simply go with shelfed bows and non-shelfed bows. Even though this above Victorian proposal was initially suggested by your's truly, I can see definate advantages in your new rules.
I hope your vision of uniform rules extends Australia wide. We do need unified rules and I sincerely hope the other state organisers chime in with a spirit of co-operation.
Mick
I know that down this way in Victoria, there has been a move away from having multiple divisions. The reasons for this, I believe, were mainly because of the very low numbers involved in some divisions and the sometimes ludicrus situation arose where trophies were handed out simply because there were so few competitors in that division, all they had to do was to turn up at the event. I believe another reason for the introduction of the latest Victorian ruling was simply a desire to keep things simple. It was agreed to simply go with shelfed bows and non-shelfed bows. Even though this above Victorian proposal was initially suggested by your's truly, I can see definate advantages in your new rules.
I hope your vision of uniform rules extends Australia wide. We do need unified rules and I sincerely hope the other state organisers chime in with a spirit of co-operation.
Mick
There is no use focusing on aiming if you don't execute the shot well enough to hit what your are aiming at.
Bare with me please . Still getting spat off this site from time to time - what a time for computor problems .
Longbow Steve - I knew questions like yours would be asked . We will add a clause into Release method to read - A single anchor point only will be used . Its very difficult to include or exclude every shooting technique in traditional archery without getting into longwinded governing body type rules - thats not what we are trying to do just get some uniformity .
And in case anyone asks - String walking is a no no as well . These rules mostly deal with aiming for uniform equipment around Australia , we just hope people play within the spirit traditional archers love so much .
GrahameA - If your riser has non adjustable limb pockets , no plunger button and is cut past 1/8th from centreshot you can add packing to bring it to 1/8th from centre and fit a non adjustable rest thats adhered to the site window or arrow shelf and be within these rules .
Brumbies Country - Other than being against the accepted norm I don't see any advantage could be gained by using a elevated rest on a longbow . Thought this may create some interest - willing if popular opinion says to change to' Arrows must be shot off the shelf "
We did ask for input some months ago but Grahame was the only one to offer any so Greybeard and I relied on our own knowledge and asked around the Trad Archers we have contact with , many never really understood why a elevated rest on a longbow was not accepted . It also adds a degree of uniformity for archers who shoot the same set up on both sorts of bows .
Mick - We really hope these rules will continue to have any rough edges sorted and be adopted Australia wide .
Anyone out there that would like a copy of these for possible adoption for there club trad shoot please PM me your email addresses and I will send a copy . regards Perry
Longbow Steve - I knew questions like yours would be asked . We will add a clause into Release method to read - A single anchor point only will be used . Its very difficult to include or exclude every shooting technique in traditional archery without getting into longwinded governing body type rules - thats not what we are trying to do just get some uniformity .
And in case anyone asks - String walking is a no no as well . These rules mostly deal with aiming for uniform equipment around Australia , we just hope people play within the spirit traditional archers love so much .
GrahameA - If your riser has non adjustable limb pockets , no plunger button and is cut past 1/8th from centreshot you can add packing to bring it to 1/8th from centre and fit a non adjustable rest thats adhered to the site window or arrow shelf and be within these rules .
Brumbies Country - Other than being against the accepted norm I don't see any advantage could be gained by using a elevated rest on a longbow . Thought this may create some interest - willing if popular opinion says to change to' Arrows must be shot off the shelf "
We did ask for input some months ago but Grahame was the only one to offer any so Greybeard and I relied on our own knowledge and asked around the Trad Archers we have contact with , many never really understood why a elevated rest on a longbow was not accepted . It also adds a degree of uniformity for archers who shoot the same set up on both sorts of bows .
Mick - We really hope these rules will continue to have any rough edges sorted and be adopted Australia wide .
Anyone out there that would like a copy of these for possible adoption for there club trad shoot please PM me your email addresses and I will send a copy . regards Perry
"To my deep morticication my father once said to me, 'You care for nothing but shooting, dogs and rat catching, and you will be a disgrace to yourself and all your family.' "
- Charles Darwin
- Charles Darwin
-
Chase N. Nocks
- Posts: 1463
- Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:33 am
- Location: Brisbane, Australia
Good work guys.
A couple of questions.
I assume that I will still be allowed to attend, shoot and score at Trad shoots even though I will be shooting carbon or aluminium arrows. I accept that I would be eliminated from any of the prize winning but I want to join in the fun with other Trad shooters and I would like to see my scores posted for comparison with my peers.
Secondly, this is not a criticism nor being a smart-****. What makes string-walking or face-walking an illegitimate method of aiming in trad shooting in particular and field archery in general. To my mind the shooter still has to make an estimate on the distance to target the same as the 'instinctive or gap' shooter. If it is a question of quickdraw/shooting speed as a consideration for the hunting part of our sport. Another consideration might be the maximum ethical distances of targets. This is a genuine question .
Something that ABA has lost sight of, to its detriment. It may be catering to the large body of compound shooters but I think they have lost a lot of the colour and spirit of the sport.
This is not a criticism because perry and greybeard have done an excellent job.
Cheers
Troy
A couple of questions.
I assume that I will still be allowed to attend, shoot and score at Trad shoots even though I will be shooting carbon or aluminium arrows. I accept that I would be eliminated from any of the prize winning but I want to join in the fun with other Trad shooters and I would like to see my scores posted for comparison with my peers.
Secondly, this is not a criticism nor being a smart-****. What makes string-walking or face-walking an illegitimate method of aiming in trad shooting in particular and field archery in general. To my mind the shooter still has to make an estimate on the distance to target the same as the 'instinctive or gap' shooter. If it is a question of quickdraw/shooting speed as a consideration for the hunting part of our sport. Another consideration might be the maximum ethical distances of targets. This is a genuine question .
Something that ABA has lost sight of, to its detriment. It may be catering to the large body of compound shooters but I think they have lost a lot of the colour and spirit of the sport.
This is not a criticism because perry and greybeard have done an excellent job.
Cheers
Troy
I am an Archer. I am not a traditional archer, bowhunter, compound shooter or target archer.....I am an Archer
"Shooting the Stickbow"
....enforced by the "whistling grey-goose wing."
"The Witchery of Archery"
"Shooting the Stickbow"
....enforced by the "whistling grey-goose wing."
"The Witchery of Archery"
-
longbowinfected
- Posts: 2040
- Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:42 pm
Great work guys.
My only issue is my not understanding who would use an elevated arrow rest or why on a modern longbow?
I am not against it per se, I just do not understand the concept.
Is this a significant , mainstream thing in other disciplines / associations?
I have only been shooting longbow for about two years and haven't seen anyone doing that but then again I normally shoot AA and have only shot at a few ABA fields and one trad shoot where I did not really check out every archer's gear.
Enlighten me please.
Kevin
My only issue is my not understanding who would use an elevated arrow rest or why on a modern longbow?
I am not against it per se, I just do not understand the concept.
Is this a significant , mainstream thing in other disciplines / associations?
I have only been shooting longbow for about two years and haven't seen anyone doing that but then again I normally shoot AA and have only shot at a few ABA fields and one trad shoot where I did not really check out every archer's gear.
Enlighten me please.
Kevin
never complain....you did not have to wake up....every day is an extra bonus and costs nothing.
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Southern Fox
- Posts: 83
- Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:30 am
- Location: Surf Coast Victoria
Horsebows
Wonderful stuff. You must have had a brain spasm teasing it all out. Now for a rough edge.
Where will leather wrapped composite fibreglass limbed horsebows fit. According to these rules they would not be allowed in the primitive section although they more than qualify in every other historical description.
The only other section is the modern recurve where they would really struggle.
If you can figure this gliche out then you have sewn it up I reckon. In the meantime the Southern Series will most likely stick with Shelf/No Shelf. Very simple and effective.
Where will leather wrapped composite fibreglass limbed horsebows fit. According to these rules they would not be allowed in the primitive section although they more than qualify in every other historical description.
The only other section is the modern recurve where they would really struggle.
If you can figure this gliche out then you have sewn it up I reckon. In the meantime the Southern Series will most likely stick with Shelf/No Shelf. Very simple and effective.
"...destiny does not just happen to you. You have to pursue it vigorously...."
I do see your dilema Southern Fox . As you can imagine we had to draw a line in the sand somewhere and we could not ignore the fact that bows with leather covered fibreglass laminated limbs no matter how they are styled are a modern recurve .
I had a Samick skb 55# and could shoot it as well as my other bows primitive and modern and I genuinly believe with proper form and skill you can mix it very well on the field course at the ranges trad shoots are generally shot at with a reproduction horsebow .
Sort of related and definatly a gee up - a mate of mine with his 60 #Yumi horsebow reproduction and me with my 57# Brigalow Meare Heath styled selfbow had a flight contest using identical spine arrows , mass around 570 grains and matched to 5 grains that flew perfectly out of both bows and my selfbow kicked the Yumi butt every arrow by between 8 and 10 paces . Arrows travelled between 170 and 180 paces . We put a mark on all the arrows as a draw check and drew to it .
regards Perry
I had a Samick skb 55# and could shoot it as well as my other bows primitive and modern and I genuinly believe with proper form and skill you can mix it very well on the field course at the ranges trad shoots are generally shot at with a reproduction horsebow .
Sort of related and definatly a gee up - a mate of mine with his 60 #Yumi horsebow reproduction and me with my 57# Brigalow Meare Heath styled selfbow had a flight contest using identical spine arrows , mass around 570 grains and matched to 5 grains that flew perfectly out of both bows and my selfbow kicked the Yumi butt every arrow by between 8 and 10 paces . Arrows travelled between 170 and 180 paces . We put a mark on all the arrows as a draw check and drew to it .
regards Perry
Last edited by perry on Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"To my deep morticication my father once said to me, 'You care for nothing but shooting, dogs and rat catching, and you will be a disgrace to yourself and all your family.' "
- Charles Darwin
- Charles Darwin
Hi Troy,
North Albert is a very accommodating club and you are most welcome to participate in our Traditional Rendezvous. If other archers shooting (no compounds) non wood arrows wish to join in the fun they are most welcome.
As you have stated you are not eligible to receive a trophy.
As far as string walking, face walking and whatever other options may be available we had to draw a line in the sand.
As you are probably aware these new rules were formulated as a result of one of your threads.
People were invited to make submissions to help formulate the new rules but unfortunately the response was disappointing, virtually nil.
Perry and I were left to try to put together a set of rules that would be simple, yet concise and try to encompass all contingencies. You can appreciate that this is not an easy goal to achieve.
You can please some of the people some of the time, most of the people most of the time but you can’t please all of the people all of the time.
Cheers,
Daryl.
North Albert is a very accommodating club and you are most welcome to participate in our Traditional Rendezvous. If other archers shooting (no compounds) non wood arrows wish to join in the fun they are most welcome.
As you have stated you are not eligible to receive a trophy.
As far as string walking, face walking and whatever other options may be available we had to draw a line in the sand.
As you are probably aware these new rules were formulated as a result of one of your threads.
People were invited to make submissions to help formulate the new rules but unfortunately the response was disappointing, virtually nil.
Perry and I were left to try to put together a set of rules that would be simple, yet concise and try to encompass all contingencies. You can appreciate that this is not an easy goal to achieve.
You can please some of the people some of the time, most of the people most of the time but you can’t please all of the people all of the time.
Cheers,
Daryl.
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken. [Ascham]
“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]
I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken. [Ascham]
“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]
I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....
Longbowinfected - the dilema with traditional archery is that people have no problem accepting certain innovations like fibreglass laminations which is a product of WW2 and won't accept alluminium arrows that where comercially available in the 1920's. then turn around and are happy to have carbon fibre cores in there longbow limbs but wont accept carbon arrows . Arrow rests can be proven to have been in use with longbows for a big part of the 20th century in some circles but are not accepted in others .
I also beleive that an arrow rest does not offer an advantage over shooting off the shelf . Some would argue that as the arrow is closer to the hand off the shelf is perhaps more accurate We were also trying to add a degree of consistaincy in the modern bow divisions .
These rules are not set in stone and I am prepared to go back to modern longbows must be shoot off the shelf if thats what a majority want .
Chasin Nocks - As a rabid archery nut I admire anyone that has the smarts to Gap shoot , face walk , string walk etc . It is almost an urban myth about the accuracy advantages with these systems , the archer still has to make the calculations . It is now generally accepted that these systems are just not cricket if you get the drift . I know gap shooters and string walkers that can shoot as fast as any one out there as well .
This does make me look hypocrital as I have other some content here that is not generally accepted - but hey I'll take it on the chin.
As for distances - the purpose of these rules is not to set formats but to help define equipment and accepted methods of shooting , leave distances to the devious bastards that set the courses .
Greybeard , I have known Chasin Knocks since Grade 3 - Dont be so accomodating .
regards Perry
I also beleive that an arrow rest does not offer an advantage over shooting off the shelf . Some would argue that as the arrow is closer to the hand off the shelf is perhaps more accurate We were also trying to add a degree of consistaincy in the modern bow divisions .
These rules are not set in stone and I am prepared to go back to modern longbows must be shoot off the shelf if thats what a majority want .
Chasin Nocks - As a rabid archery nut I admire anyone that has the smarts to Gap shoot , face walk , string walk etc . It is almost an urban myth about the accuracy advantages with these systems , the archer still has to make the calculations . It is now generally accepted that these systems are just not cricket if you get the drift . I know gap shooters and string walkers that can shoot as fast as any one out there as well .
This does make me look hypocrital as I have other some content here that is not generally accepted - but hey I'll take it on the chin.
As for distances - the purpose of these rules is not to set formats but to help define equipment and accepted methods of shooting , leave distances to the devious bastards that set the courses .
Greybeard , I have known Chasin Knocks since Grade 3 - Dont be so accomodating .
regards Perry
"To my deep morticication my father once said to me, 'You care for nothing but shooting, dogs and rat catching, and you will be a disgrace to yourself and all your family.' "
- Charles Darwin
- Charles Darwin
Hi Southern Fox,
I would not be too concerned about shooting your leather/glass horse bow against modern recurves.
Because of the relatively short distances of 30 yards plus or minus used at trad shoots the arrow from a modern recurve may get there a poofteenth quicker.
It all gets back to how proficient the archer is with his chosen bow and how he matches his arrows to that bow.
Remember that at trad shoots you are not shooting on a flat field at marked distances but contending with deceptive targets set up in the bush by some people who may not know their parentage.
Daryl.
I would not be too concerned about shooting your leather/glass horse bow against modern recurves.
Because of the relatively short distances of 30 yards plus or minus used at trad shoots the arrow from a modern recurve may get there a poofteenth quicker.
It all gets back to how proficient the archer is with his chosen bow and how he matches his arrows to that bow.
Remember that at trad shoots you are not shooting on a flat field at marked distances but contending with deceptive targets set up in the bush by some people who may not know their parentage.
Daryl.
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken. [Ascham]
“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]
I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken. [Ascham]
“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]
I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....
SF
I shot my Mongolian with the modern recurves at Nth Albert last year and I did not feel I was at a significant disadvantage. In some situations being such a short bow it was a positive advantage.
At the Corrival I shot my Yamaha recurve and did have a few issues with trees that Perry had strategically placed just so they would foul my limbs - these issues would not have occured if I had been shooting the Mongolian.
The rules are not perfect but they will work. The reality is that no matter what set of rules are formulated someone somewhere will not be happy. For me this is one of the better compomises and they will improve as they are fine tuned over the years.
I shot my Mongolian with the modern recurves at Nth Albert last year and I did not feel I was at a significant disadvantage. In some situations being such a short bow it was a positive advantage.
At the Corrival I shot my Yamaha recurve and did have a few issues with trees that Perry had strategically placed just so they would foul my limbs - these issues would not have occured if I had been shooting the Mongolian.
The rules are not perfect but they will work. The reality is that no matter what set of rules are formulated someone somewhere will not be happy. For me this is one of the better compomises and they will improve as they are fine tuned over the years.
Grahame.
Shoot a Selfbow, embrace Wood Arrows, discover Vintage, be a Trendsetter.
"Unfortunately, the equating of simplicity with truth doesn't often work in real life. It doesn't often work in science, either." Dr Len Fisher.
Shoot a Selfbow, embrace Wood Arrows, discover Vintage, be a Trendsetter.
"Unfortunately, the equating of simplicity with truth doesn't often work in real life. It doesn't often work in science, either." Dr Len Fisher.
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Southern Fox
- Posts: 83
- Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:30 am
- Location: Surf Coast Victoria
Horsebows
I think I am beginning to understand things now. In Victoria we do much less 3D at present and we do target at 50 meters and clout. Clout particlularly is taking off big time down here. (see thread on battle clout).
Consequently there might be a disadvantage with the Horsebows v's recurve. Personally I have never been a fan of divisions because I too think it's more a matter of spine and skill. However with a simple no-shelf/shelf division it still accommodates everyones feelings down South.
I still think Micks picked a winner with the KISS principal. We'll try it down here for this year and see how it goes.
That's not to take away from the excellent work you guys have done in regards to catergorising. An excersize definitely worth doing.
Consequently there might be a disadvantage with the Horsebows v's recurve. Personally I have never been a fan of divisions because I too think it's more a matter of spine and skill. However with a simple no-shelf/shelf division it still accommodates everyones feelings down South.
I still think Micks picked a winner with the KISS principal. We'll try it down here for this year and see how it goes.
That's not to take away from the excellent work you guys have done in regards to catergorising. An excersize definitely worth doing.
"...destiny does not just happen to you. You have to pursue it vigorously...."
SF
There are some things in the rules that are good for those shooting the longer distances.
My limited experience suggests that a minimum of 12" fletching has been a "rule" for arrows in the past. (Darryl/Perry correct me if I am wrong.) Under the proposed rules you can use as much or as little fletching as you want. Big leap forward when you are shooting those targets out beyond the 40m mark.
One of the challenges faced when writing a set of rules/guidelines is that they need to be fundametally applicable across all forms of the sport. Consider that if a 12" fletch rule had been adopted some people would be shooting clout at 90m targets.
One thing that is not mentioned in the rules are "Ground Markers". Are they acceptable if you are shooting target? I would say a definite yes as they were used in the past however many other would not agree and thus that is a question to be resolved in the future. But then again the rules are about the equipment not about the event.
There are some things in the rules that are good for those shooting the longer distances.
My limited experience suggests that a minimum of 12" fletching has been a "rule" for arrows in the past. (Darryl/Perry correct me if I am wrong.) Under the proposed rules you can use as much or as little fletching as you want. Big leap forward when you are shooting those targets out beyond the 40m mark.
One of the challenges faced when writing a set of rules/guidelines is that they need to be fundametally applicable across all forms of the sport. Consider that if a 12" fletch rule had been adopted some people would be shooting clout at 90m targets.
One thing that is not mentioned in the rules are "Ground Markers". Are they acceptable if you are shooting target? I would say a definite yes as they were used in the past however many other would not agree and thus that is a question to be resolved in the future. But then again the rules are about the equipment not about the event.
Last edited by GrahameA on Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:25 am, edited 3 times in total.
Grahame.
Shoot a Selfbow, embrace Wood Arrows, discover Vintage, be a Trendsetter.
"Unfortunately, the equating of simplicity with truth doesn't often work in real life. It doesn't often work in science, either." Dr Len Fisher.
Shoot a Selfbow, embrace Wood Arrows, discover Vintage, be a Trendsetter.
"Unfortunately, the equating of simplicity with truth doesn't often work in real life. It doesn't often work in science, either." Dr Len Fisher.
G'day all
Interesting stuff. I've got a couple of questions...why is string walking not permitted. To me its just another way of shooting a traditional bow without attached sights. To my mind its no less valid than gap shooting, point of aim, split vision or any other way you shoot a "trad bow"; as long as it doesn't have an attached sight.
I don't shoot instinctively and I need a system of shooting. I've chosen the Byron Ferguson "Become the Arrow"/Howard Hill Split vision method.
Also the "traditional and primitive" category talks about horn and composite bows. Most modern horsebow reporductions either have a fibreglass or wood core with fibreglass reinforcing. The Grozer bows that I have are composed of a wood core with fibreglass reinforcing Would those be included in this category. I think few of us would be able to afford a full horn composite replica.
Other than that it looks pretty good to me.
Happy shooting all
Interesting stuff. I've got a couple of questions...why is string walking not permitted. To me its just another way of shooting a traditional bow without attached sights. To my mind its no less valid than gap shooting, point of aim, split vision or any other way you shoot a "trad bow"; as long as it doesn't have an attached sight.
I don't shoot instinctively and I need a system of shooting. I've chosen the Byron Ferguson "Become the Arrow"/Howard Hill Split vision method.
Also the "traditional and primitive" category talks about horn and composite bows. Most modern horsebow reporductions either have a fibreglass or wood core with fibreglass reinforcing. The Grozer bows that I have are composed of a wood core with fibreglass reinforcing Would those be included in this category. I think few of us would be able to afford a full horn composite replica.
Other than that it looks pretty good to me.
Happy shooting all
They'll never hit us from this dist....
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longbowinfected
- Posts: 2040
- Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:42 pm
G'day,
what a great little thread and boy, how far have we come.
Perry & Grahame
Thanks for the info on arrow rests
Mayland
Do not take this the wrong way but hysterically [historically with the wrong attitude] stringwalkers are seen to be too good. Additionally greatly misunderstood by those who do not have the knowledge and jealousy raises its ugly head because stringwalkers do not use the Mediterranean release [purists' lament]. The real problem is that how do you know and proove whether instinctual, gap or arrow point is being used = you cannot, you can only take the word of the archer.
The trouble with stringwalking is that it is visibly obvious = the error as it were being that you have been "caught" and to a certain point that is really unfair.
At the end of the day it is all about skill. The more people on the line with higher skills the better everyone will shoot.
DEVIL's ADVOCATE with broad license
Do not get me wrong here but consider this:
- in battles the ground was known the evening before in many cases
- the conduct was planned in council
- I bet there were ground markers / distance markers
- I bet each side tried to move each others markers
- if my life, my mates' lives and the interests of my country were at risk I would carve nicks along my bow or would have added a simple string ring on my bow as an adjustable sight or I would have placed pins or nails on my bow. These days you would use a waterproof marking pen.
Can any one tell me there is much difference between any of the my perceived systems and the modern systems rather than a lack of truth?
Can anyone say that none of the systems I perceived happened?
Why are we allowed to do some these days but not others?
I do not know the answers. I do not necessarily want to effect that sort of change. I think it suited some in the past to build up hidden mystique about using trad bows and this has bitten us on the derriere as the mystery stops people from trying even though the "romance" is strong.
Do not shoot the messenger.
Kevin
what a great little thread and boy, how far have we come.
Perry & Grahame
Thanks for the info on arrow rests
Mayland
Do not take this the wrong way but hysterically [historically with the wrong attitude] stringwalkers are seen to be too good. Additionally greatly misunderstood by those who do not have the knowledge and jealousy raises its ugly head because stringwalkers do not use the Mediterranean release [purists' lament]. The real problem is that how do you know and proove whether instinctual, gap or arrow point is being used = you cannot, you can only take the word of the archer.
The trouble with stringwalking is that it is visibly obvious = the error as it were being that you have been "caught" and to a certain point that is really unfair.
At the end of the day it is all about skill. The more people on the line with higher skills the better everyone will shoot.
DEVIL's ADVOCATE with broad license
Do not get me wrong here but consider this:
- in battles the ground was known the evening before in many cases
- the conduct was planned in council
- I bet there were ground markers / distance markers
- I bet each side tried to move each others markers
- if my life, my mates' lives and the interests of my country were at risk I would carve nicks along my bow or would have added a simple string ring on my bow as an adjustable sight or I would have placed pins or nails on my bow. These days you would use a waterproof marking pen.
Can any one tell me there is much difference between any of the my perceived systems and the modern systems rather than a lack of truth?
Can anyone say that none of the systems I perceived happened?
Why are we allowed to do some these days but not others?
I do not know the answers. I do not necessarily want to effect that sort of change. I think it suited some in the past to build up hidden mystique about using trad bows and this has bitten us on the derriere as the mystery stops people from trying even though the "romance" is strong.
Do not shoot the messenger.
Kevin
never complain....you did not have to wake up....every day is an extra bonus and costs nothing.
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Southern Fox
- Posts: 83
- Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:30 am
- Location: Surf Coast Victoria
rules
Very interesting post Longbowinfected. Maybe the magic of trad. archery is that it is impossible to define and anyone who tries will come unstuck.
"...destiny does not just happen to you. You have to pursue it vigorously...."
Good work..
Great work guys these do seem much more common sence than we have had before and thanks for taking the time you have.Just one thing I have to ask is why not have a "Hunter"class where guys that predominatley hunt and dont do many target type shoots can use their normal setup.
I shoot a bow to hunt and have spent many countless hours getting the right set up for this aspect of the sport.Trad ideals and romance aside I firmley believe carbons make the best arrows if hunting is your fav. interest so why cant I still compete with this setup next to some one who just likes the IDEA of being more trad with wood shafts.I understand you need to keep the TARGET type arrows out of it but why not use a grain per pound limit to do this.As already stated you allow carbon in bows but not arrows this seems a bit strange to me as long as it is a setup that is configured to suit the hunting guys.I know of a few gys in the same boat that dont bother with another set of arrows just for competing so just dont go to these shoots which is a shame as I think the more people you get at the shoots the more fun it is.
Cheers KIM
I shoot a bow to hunt and have spent many countless hours getting the right set up for this aspect of the sport.Trad ideals and romance aside I firmley believe carbons make the best arrows if hunting is your fav. interest so why cant I still compete with this setup next to some one who just likes the IDEA of being more trad with wood shafts.I understand you need to keep the TARGET type arrows out of it but why not use a grain per pound limit to do this.As already stated you allow carbon in bows but not arrows this seems a bit strange to me as long as it is a setup that is configured to suit the hunting guys.I know of a few gys in the same boat that dont bother with another set of arrows just for competing so just dont go to these shoots which is a shame as I think the more people you get at the shoots the more fun it is.
Cheers KIM
thanks to greybeard & perry
The Traditional Archery Get-Together will be happy to use these rules in August 30th & 31st 2008
The only exception will be the use of arrows -
any arrow material will be allowed -
a special award for the use of timber arrows
our reason is to encourage archers to use traditional gear
moreton
here is a link about string walking
http://www.stickbow.com/FEATURES/SHOOTI ... /index.CFM
The Traditional Archery Get-Together will be happy to use these rules in August 30th & 31st 2008
The only exception will be the use of arrows -
any arrow material will be allowed -
a special award for the use of timber arrows
our reason is to encourage archers to use traditional gear
moreton
here is a link about string walking
http://www.stickbow.com/FEATURES/SHOOTI ... /index.CFM