gady fellas, anyone know what the laws on owning knifes is. ive been told a few of mine are alegal. ive swords,axes and some custom knifes and dont want to lose them if i can help it. ive been told double edged knifes and swords are a nono.
i had a look and what i found said that they are..
do i need to get some collectors licence.
ive a pig spear too..its prob out too.
cheers pedro
knife laws
Moderator: Moderators
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Mick Smith
- Posts: 4957
- Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:09 pm
- Location: Surf Coast Victoria
Pedro
As far as I can tell, the laws vary slightly from state to state. I've noticed that some sellers of swords on eBay specify that Victorian buyers need proof of holding the appropriate permit before the item will be shipped. These sellers are either professional or semi-professional.
I believe in Victoria you need a permit to own any type of sword, a double edged knife, or any sort of throwing knife. I believe the regulations are the same as for crossbows. From what I can tell Victoria must have the toughest laws in this area.
One young bloke I know, imported a set of 3 throwing knives. When they finally arrived in Australia, Customs impounded them, until he obtained the appropriate permit from the Victorian police.
Some items can't be imported into the country as they are effected by federal laws, items like flick knives for example. Other items are effected by state laws. It can become rather confusing, because in some circumstances you can legally carry a certain item, but in other circumstances you may not. It comes down to perceived intentions. You would certainly get away with carrying a sword at an official reenactor event, but try the same thing at your local nightclub and you will certainly end up in trouble with the boys in blue.
Mick
As far as I can tell, the laws vary slightly from state to state. I've noticed that some sellers of swords on eBay specify that Victorian buyers need proof of holding the appropriate permit before the item will be shipped. These sellers are either professional or semi-professional.
I believe in Victoria you need a permit to own any type of sword, a double edged knife, or any sort of throwing knife. I believe the regulations are the same as for crossbows. From what I can tell Victoria must have the toughest laws in this area.
One young bloke I know, imported a set of 3 throwing knives. When they finally arrived in Australia, Customs impounded them, until he obtained the appropriate permit from the Victorian police.
Some items can't be imported into the country as they are effected by federal laws, items like flick knives for example. Other items are effected by state laws. It can become rather confusing, because in some circumstances you can legally carry a certain item, but in other circumstances you may not. It comes down to perceived intentions. You would certainly get away with carrying a sword at an official reenactor event, but try the same thing at your local nightclub and you will certainly end up in trouble with the boys in blue.
Mick
There is no use focusing on aiming if you don't execute the shot well enough to hit what your are aiming at.
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ole_silver
- Posts: 451
- Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2005 9:15 am
- Location: Townsville, Qld
hi Pedro..
i have import katana swords into Queensland, opened by customs to inspect, they just put a notification sticker on the container and promtly forwarded on to me..
i dont carry these around the street .. well not until i get the appropriate clothes to wear then i will be a sight, dont go to the disco so wont get introuble there either.
depends on your state as Mick says, but wont hurt to ask the local federalis..
regards
Steve..
i have import katana swords into Queensland, opened by customs to inspect, they just put a notification sticker on the container and promtly forwarded on to me..
i dont carry these around the street .. well not until i get the appropriate clothes to wear then i will be a sight, dont go to the disco so wont get introuble there either.
depends on your state as Mick says, but wont hurt to ask the local federalis..
regards
Steve..
ole_silver1..................
"have a go now, 'fore ya can't have a go at all"
"have a go now, 'fore ya can't have a go at all"
Hi there,
If you want to keep a hold of your swords, double edged knives etc then you should get an AKC (Australian knife club) membership. Its $25 per year and you can buy and keep whatever you want. You can get one through www.globalgear.com.au or alternatively through the club itself.
Other states need not worry, just buy and keep them...thats it.
Hope that helps, good luck.
Cheers,
Leeroy
If you want to keep a hold of your swords, double edged knives etc then you should get an AKC (Australian knife club) membership. Its $25 per year and you can buy and keep whatever you want. You can get one through www.globalgear.com.au or alternatively through the club itself.
Other states need not worry, just buy and keep them...thats it.
Hope that helps, good luck.
Cheers,
Leeroy
Days, when the ball of our vision
Had eagles that flew unabashed to the sun;
When the grasp on the bow was decision,
And arrow and hand and eye were one.
-George Meredith (excerpt of 'Ode to youth in memory')
Had eagles that flew unabashed to the sun;
When the grasp on the bow was decision,
And arrow and hand and eye were one.
-George Meredith (excerpt of 'Ode to youth in memory')
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Andrea Willett
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:42 am
- Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia
Hello Pedro!
You might want to adjust your account so we can see what state you're from. As noted previously, this will affect what answers you get. If in Victoria http://www.dms.dpc.vic.gov.au/Domino/We ... enDatabase has a list of prohibited weapons in the appendix. Daggers where the blade runs all the way down to the hilt are but if it doesn't, they aren't. That's the way it's written. The police confiscated about 80 knives from a service station owner last year and had to return most of them because they didn't fit the description exactly. Swords in any form are. The fine for posessing a prohibited weapon without an exemption or permit is almost $13,000.00 by the way. You may own swords if you are a member of a group which has one of the exemptions listed in the Victorian Government Gazette http://www.gazette.vic.gov.au/archives2004.htm dated 17 June 2004 pages 1714-1724 but may only use it for the purposes listed under your specific exemption. You may also own a PW if you have an approval from the Chief Commissioner of Police (see Vic Police website for form) but that will have to be applied for every few years and it will cost you.
I couldn't see "Australian Knife Club" in the Gazette by the way therefore membership will not exempt you.
You might want to adjust your account so we can see what state you're from. As noted previously, this will affect what answers you get. If in Victoria http://www.dms.dpc.vic.gov.au/Domino/We ... enDatabase has a list of prohibited weapons in the appendix. Daggers where the blade runs all the way down to the hilt are but if it doesn't, they aren't. That's the way it's written. The police confiscated about 80 knives from a service station owner last year and had to return most of them because they didn't fit the description exactly. Swords in any form are. The fine for posessing a prohibited weapon without an exemption or permit is almost $13,000.00 by the way. You may own swords if you are a member of a group which has one of the exemptions listed in the Victorian Government Gazette http://www.gazette.vic.gov.au/archives2004.htm dated 17 June 2004 pages 1714-1724 but may only use it for the purposes listed under your specific exemption. You may also own a PW if you have an approval from the Chief Commissioner of Police (see Vic Police website for form) but that will have to be applied for every few years and it will cost you.
I couldn't see "Australian Knife Club" in the Gazette by the way therefore membership will not exempt you.
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jape
The Australian Knife Collectors states that membership provides exemption in Victoria on their website and information sheets. Good enough for me, I got a membership to cover my hunting blades. You need a steel cabinet bolted to the wall, can't just keep them in the back of the car.
I just got pinged by customs also for importing a pen knife with a inch and half one-sided blade in it! They say it is now legally a concealed weapon ...
Anti-terrorism gone to stupid extremes. They will be after hunting blades and kitchen knives next. Maybe bows ....
I just got pinged by customs also for importing a pen knife with a inch and half one-sided blade in it! They say it is now legally a concealed weapon ...
Anti-terrorism gone to stupid extremes. They will be after hunting blades and kitchen knives next. Maybe bows ....
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Andrea Willett
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:42 am
- Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia
Hello Jape!
I checked their website http://www.knivesaustralia.com.au/akc-homepage.html and on the front page it does indeed say that "Australasian Knife Collectors (AKC) financial members are covered by the Club's exemption for the collecting of swords and double edged knives (daggers) in Victoria. Please read carefully to ensure you understand the extent of the exemption and your responsibilities." but there is a link underneath that statement to a separate page explaining what is covered by their exemption. Nowhere on that page are daggers mentioned.
I then went and re-checked the VGG I mentioned in my earlier post and nowhere on page 1718-1719 in schedule 1 of the collectors exemption is "Australasian Knife Collectors" mentioned. Look for yourself, I provided the link previously. They could, of course, have changed their name since the gazette was originally published or be part of one of the other organisations who ARE listed.
Daggers are only "Prohibited Weapons" if their blades reach all the way to the hilt by the way. They then come under the item 2 in schedule 2 of the Control of Weapons 2000 (link also provided previously). If they only have one blade or the cutting edges end before the hilt then they are just "Controlled Weapon" as per the definition in the Control of Weapons Act 1990. You only need a legitimate reason to own CW "A person must not possess, carry or use a controlled weapon without lawful excuse.", not a gazetted exemption or a police commissioners approval as per PW. Your AKC membership would cover you for those, however, "A person must not carry a controlled weapon unless it is carried in a safe and secure manner consistent with the lawful excuse for which it is possessed or is carried or is to be used.". Lawful excuse includes "(a) the pursuit of any lawful employment, duty or activity; and (b) participation in any lawful sport, recreation or entertainment; and (c) the legitimate collection, display or exhibition of weapons". If you claim you are only collecting the knives then taking them out bush is not "consistent with the lawful excuse ". Hunting's a lawful activity/recreation anyway though, isn't it?
As a member of AKC could you contact them and ask about the dagger exemption thing? Get the reference of the Victorian Government Gazette it was published in if you can. I recently asked the Australian Living History Federation to apply on behalf of its member groups for a gazetted exemption for daggers, crossbows and maces. If an exemption has already been granted to someone else for daggers that would give us precedent.
I completely agree that the current laws regarding daggers and swords are ridiculous by the way.
Bye for now,
Andrea Willett
I checked their website http://www.knivesaustralia.com.au/akc-homepage.html and on the front page it does indeed say that "Australasian Knife Collectors (AKC) financial members are covered by the Club's exemption for the collecting of swords and double edged knives (daggers) in Victoria. Please read carefully to ensure you understand the extent of the exemption and your responsibilities." but there is a link underneath that statement to a separate page explaining what is covered by their exemption. Nowhere on that page are daggers mentioned.
I then went and re-checked the VGG I mentioned in my earlier post and nowhere on page 1718-1719 in schedule 1 of the collectors exemption is "Australasian Knife Collectors" mentioned. Look for yourself, I provided the link previously. They could, of course, have changed their name since the gazette was originally published or be part of one of the other organisations who ARE listed.
Daggers are only "Prohibited Weapons" if their blades reach all the way to the hilt by the way. They then come under the item 2 in schedule 2 of the Control of Weapons 2000 (link also provided previously). If they only have one blade or the cutting edges end before the hilt then they are just "Controlled Weapon" as per the definition in the Control of Weapons Act 1990. You only need a legitimate reason to own CW "A person must not possess, carry or use a controlled weapon without lawful excuse.", not a gazetted exemption or a police commissioners approval as per PW. Your AKC membership would cover you for those, however, "A person must not carry a controlled weapon unless it is carried in a safe and secure manner consistent with the lawful excuse for which it is possessed or is carried or is to be used.". Lawful excuse includes "(a) the pursuit of any lawful employment, duty or activity; and (b) participation in any lawful sport, recreation or entertainment; and (c) the legitimate collection, display or exhibition of weapons". If you claim you are only collecting the knives then taking them out bush is not "consistent with the lawful excuse ". Hunting's a lawful activity/recreation anyway though, isn't it?
As a member of AKC could you contact them and ask about the dagger exemption thing? Get the reference of the Victorian Government Gazette it was published in if you can. I recently asked the Australian Living History Federation to apply on behalf of its member groups for a gazetted exemption for daggers, crossbows and maces. If an exemption has already been granted to someone else for daggers that would give us precedent.
I completely agree that the current laws regarding daggers and swords are ridiculous by the way.
Bye for now,
Andrea Willett
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jape
I shall ring Keith Spencer tomorrow. Keith is very approachable when not too busy. These people really do keep abreast of laws and fight for freedoms. Man's first tool and all that.
I would suggest you also ring him and confer. Perhaps it is time for hunters/re-enactment and collectors/makers to get together to discuss the law. I don't want to have to get and pay for a permit for a knife! I would be really upset at that abuse of my rights as an adult.
As it stands, I can't really be annoyed at customs finding my pen-knife in the post for example, because of the stark reality of terrorism, however it is a bit unreal the way the laws work. The laws confuse me, and protect no-one I believe.
It doesn't stop the crims as usual.
Apart from hunting usage which is very irregular for most of us, a good sharp knife is a basic tool where I live in the bush, not a weapon. I probably use one every couple of days for all sorts of things. And as I live in the bush and drive around where there is no mobile coverage or sealed roads, I need a survival tool or two in the pack/carboot/sheath.
And any bowman would need at least one knife around for various purposes.
I think the dagger rule was just unfortunate interpretation when the laws were devised. I will let you know what occurs.
jape
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I would suggest you also ring him and confer. Perhaps it is time for hunters/re-enactment and collectors/makers to get together to discuss the law. I don't want to have to get and pay for a permit for a knife! I would be really upset at that abuse of my rights as an adult.
As it stands, I can't really be annoyed at customs finding my pen-knife in the post for example, because of the stark reality of terrorism, however it is a bit unreal the way the laws work. The laws confuse me, and protect no-one I believe.
It doesn't stop the crims as usual.
Apart from hunting usage which is very irregular for most of us, a good sharp knife is a basic tool where I live in the bush, not a weapon. I probably use one every couple of days for all sorts of things. And as I live in the bush and drive around where there is no mobile coverage or sealed roads, I need a survival tool or two in the pack/carboot/sheath.
And any bowman would need at least one knife around for various purposes.
I think the dagger rule was just unfortunate interpretation when the laws were devised. I will let you know what occurs.
jape
[/i]
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jape
I have had a long conversation about this with AKC. In the schedule they were referred to as the National Knife Club or some such but are indeed covered by exempion, for daggers too. It is not that simple though as more than one law applies now. It is to do with intent, purpose of the blade when manufactured, fair understanding and such legal interpretations and they do vary a lot in different states. A'leatherman' is legal in some senses where a swiss army knife is not, etc.
However, AKC membership does allow exemption for members in Victoria for swords and daggers that does not require a seperate personal certification. The regs for carriage and storage do apply.
I have tried to send Andrea a PM but it goes to outboxonly so far and sometimes I cannot post even when logged in! I shall resolve those issues and post more information in a seperate thread later.
jape
However, AKC membership does allow exemption for members in Victoria for swords and daggers that does not require a seperate personal certification. The regs for carriage and storage do apply.
I have tried to send Andrea a PM but it goes to outboxonly so far and sometimes I cannot post even when logged in! I shall resolve those issues and post more information in a seperate thread later.
jape
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Andrea Willett
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:42 am
- Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia
Hello Jape!
"National Knife Collectors Association" is in the Victorian Government Gazette on the collectors exemption for swords. Did he give you the date of the VGG in which they have their dagger exemption? Daggers were shifted from Controlled Weapons (Exemption/Approval not required, only a valid reason to possess) to Prohibited Weapons (Exemption/Approval required) several years before swords.
I received & replied to your PM. I will phone you during my lunch hour (11.30-12.30). I have limited dispensation for personal calls during working hours without getting my butt kicked.
Bye for now,
Andrea
"National Knife Collectors Association" is in the Victorian Government Gazette on the collectors exemption for swords. Did he give you the date of the VGG in which they have their dagger exemption? Daggers were shifted from Controlled Weapons (Exemption/Approval not required, only a valid reason to possess) to Prohibited Weapons (Exemption/Approval required) several years before swords.
I received & replied to your PM. I will phone you during my lunch hour (11.30-12.30). I have limited dispensation for personal calls during working hours without getting my butt kicked.
Bye for now,
Andrea
Don't you just hate bureaucracy? I love Victoria, but sometimes it really **** me off...*sigh*
Cheers,
Leeroy
Cheers,
Leeroy
Days, when the ball of our vision
Had eagles that flew unabashed to the sun;
When the grasp on the bow was decision,
And arrow and hand and eye were one.
-George Meredith (excerpt of 'Ode to youth in memory')
Had eagles that flew unabashed to the sun;
When the grasp on the bow was decision,
And arrow and hand and eye were one.
-George Meredith (excerpt of 'Ode to youth in memory')
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jape
Yeah, this is really starting to infringe on my sense of personal freedom despite the reality of terrorism and violence about us. I am sick of being treated as an insane child by the law makers because I lwish to own a sword and learn swordmanship and want to carry a knife to hand, as a tool, when appropriate.
I wouldn't carry a dagger or sword into town or to the local Post Office, but a small sheathed blade perhaps all the time. I have carried a knife, as penknife or sheath knife for 44 years since I was eleven and my grandfather gave me one. A family tradition.
We have honoured soldiers and respected citizens in my family ranks who have given life, blood and time for their country. I am a black sheep, a drop-out artistic type, lazy and not very ethical. But I am socialised! I am not a threat to anyone unless threatened. Perhaps that is the problem.
These soft minded control freaks have made it impossible to own a tool, far beyond the control of weapons.
The worry I have is that it will extend to bows next.
jape
I wouldn't carry a dagger or sword into town or to the local Post Office, but a small sheathed blade perhaps all the time. I have carried a knife, as penknife or sheath knife for 44 years since I was eleven and my grandfather gave me one. A family tradition.
We have honoured soldiers and respected citizens in my family ranks who have given life, blood and time for their country. I am a black sheep, a drop-out artistic type, lazy and not very ethical. But I am socialised! I am not a threat to anyone unless threatened. Perhaps that is the problem.
These soft minded control freaks have made it impossible to own a tool, far beyond the control of weapons.
The worry I have is that it will extend to bows next.
jape
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Andrea Willett
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:42 am
- Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia
You obviously don't own any guns. When Little Johnny was making maximum political mileage out of Port Arthur we were saying:
"But WE didn't do anything. We WOULDN'T do anything. The guns you're confiscating haven't been used in any crime. They're owned by what are obviously law-abiding people because they're registered. Criminals & nutcases don't register THEIR guns. They don't BUY registered guns. Violent people will kill and maim others with blades & blunt objects & petrol with matches. How will this reduce crime or prevent another massacre? Martin Bryant's guns weren't registered. He didn't have a Shooters Licence."
And nobody listened. I was particularly offended by the RSL coming out in favour of the new gun laws. I haven't been a member since.
When they transferred daggers from Controlled to Prohibited Weapons we said:
"Why is a particular type of blade more dangerous than any other? Why is a dagger more dangerous than my grandmother's Wiltshire stay-sharp? You're not banning that. This makes no sense."
And again nobody listened.
When they transferred swords & crossbows recently from Controlled to Prohibited Weapons we said:
" Again?! Why are swords more dangerous than machettes or cane cutters or axes? You're not banning them. You don't even distinguish between swords & machettes in the Bureau of Statistics figures so you can't tell how many attacks have been with actual swords anyway. Your definition encompasses the very-much blunted swords owned by the re-enactors and western martial arts people as well as the sharps. They're blunt objects for Christs sake. You could do as much damage with a strip of steel from Mitre 10. How many million wall hangers have been sold over the years and never used in anger? There are more people maimed in road rage attacks per thousand car owners than are harmed with swords. You're not banning cars. This is STUPID!"
And they still didn't listen. 'Cause the Police Minister at the time was embroiled in several scandals and needed to re-direct the publics attention by being seen to be "doing something". And they're not listening now.
Anyway, bows ARE banned as Prohibited Weapons. CROSS-bows. Happened at the same time as swords.
Yours in simmering outrage,
Andrea Willett
PS Sorry about the rant. This crap has been cheesing me off for years.
"But WE didn't do anything. We WOULDN'T do anything. The guns you're confiscating haven't been used in any crime. They're owned by what are obviously law-abiding people because they're registered. Criminals & nutcases don't register THEIR guns. They don't BUY registered guns. Violent people will kill and maim others with blades & blunt objects & petrol with matches. How will this reduce crime or prevent another massacre? Martin Bryant's guns weren't registered. He didn't have a Shooters Licence."
And nobody listened. I was particularly offended by the RSL coming out in favour of the new gun laws. I haven't been a member since.
When they transferred daggers from Controlled to Prohibited Weapons we said:
"Why is a particular type of blade more dangerous than any other? Why is a dagger more dangerous than my grandmother's Wiltshire stay-sharp? You're not banning that. This makes no sense."
And again nobody listened.
When they transferred swords & crossbows recently from Controlled to Prohibited Weapons we said:
" Again?! Why are swords more dangerous than machettes or cane cutters or axes? You're not banning them. You don't even distinguish between swords & machettes in the Bureau of Statistics figures so you can't tell how many attacks have been with actual swords anyway. Your definition encompasses the very-much blunted swords owned by the re-enactors and western martial arts people as well as the sharps. They're blunt objects for Christs sake. You could do as much damage with a strip of steel from Mitre 10. How many million wall hangers have been sold over the years and never used in anger? There are more people maimed in road rage attacks per thousand car owners than are harmed with swords. You're not banning cars. This is STUPID!"
And they still didn't listen. 'Cause the Police Minister at the time was embroiled in several scandals and needed to re-direct the publics attention by being seen to be "doing something". And they're not listening now.
Anyway, bows ARE banned as Prohibited Weapons. CROSS-bows. Happened at the same time as swords.
Yours in simmering outrage,
Andrea Willett
PS Sorry about the rant. This crap has been cheesing me off for years.