Own Worst Enemy

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GrahameA · #1 Post by **GrahameA** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:02 am

Good Morning All

I was unsure whether to post this here or in Scene and Herd but given other recent posts here....

Came across this today on the Archery Forum.

Post:
http://www.archery-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=93825

Anyone tried to shoot at cat with a bow?

In essence it is a link to a US site about feral cat hunting.

http://www.feralcathunt.com

Please have a look and more importantly view the video and try to view from a child's or cat lover's viewpoint. The shot of the little kitten is just the thing to give a "positve" impression.

My immediate though was along the lines of Hunters are their own worst enemy and chalk another one up for the anti-hunting lobby.

I really do not think hunting needs any more negative stereotypes.

Add to that nice little headlines like this:
Man to trial over dog shjot by arrow
Brisbane Courier Mail, Sat March 4, page 15.

BTW: I am firmly on the side of John Walmsley

nimrod · #2 Post by **nimrod** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:19 am

grahame as someone who has a problem with feral cats I still find this crazy we should not advertise if we kill these cats as someone who lives in a small village where cat extremistists would like to rule we can not be seeen to culling these beasts (shoot ,shovel ,shut up

Mick Smith · #3 Post by **Mick Smith** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:24 am

Grahame

This is a difficult one. On one side we have well documented evidence of the damage feral cats do to the environment. The Australian countryside would certainly be much better off without them. They are a legitimate hunting target for this reason. They are a worthy species to hunt as they have highly developed senses combined with highly evolved survival skills.

On the other side, cats are a very popular pet. The vast majority of Australians only get to see this side of the story. Cats certainly do make a wonderful pet. Your average cat owner/lover would be totally horrified to see an animal they think they know and one that they love killed before their eyes. The average person on the street would certainly associate any cat with the pet cat they either had as a child or still currently have.

Personally, I think graphic footage of cat culling is one topic that we should "keep close to our chest". There is little to be gained from publicising graphic scenes of fluffy cats being killed, in fact it could be very contrary to our best interests. I'm not saying we shouldn't tell anyone because we ARE doing conversation a service by ridding our rural environment of these wanten killers, what I am saying is, we'd be better off not to provide, what would certainly be horrific footage to many people, on a public forum.

Mick

Mick Smith · #4 Post by **Mick Smith** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:29 am

Grahame

I don't know any details about the "Man to trial over dog shot with an arrow". Could you please elaborate for me? Was it a feral dog or someone's pet? Do you recall the circumstances?

Thanks

Mick

GrahameA · #5 Post by **GrahameA** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:44 am

Hi Mick

Someone shot a pet dog and it is alleged that the chap who is going to trial did it. Apparently it was his neighbours cat.

I will see if I can find an online link to it for you.

Edit
Here you are Mick

Have also sent you fill text seperately.

http://www.thecouriermail.news.com.au/c ... 02,00.html

Stop Edit

WRT Cats
Nobody take offence.
I put this on the bottom of my post: BTW: I am firmly on the side of John Walmsley

I would be the first person to say that feral cats are a major issue and if you treat it as serious issue you will get a positive message across regarding their culling etc. Treating it in a flippant manner will only reinforce the negative hunting stereotype

dan76 · #6 Post by **dan76** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:02 pm

I don't know about this one it's hard isn't it. When out hunting i see the destruction of ferel cats as a duty toward the preservation of native australian wildlife, but cats are pets too and some people love them. I think the tone of video is a little "off" and may upset some people, the use of the kitten footage should have been replaced with an adult cat for a start. other than that who knows, maybe the video is sending a message about the enviromental effects of feral cats, that being said you certainly can't see it in that trailer.
Dan

Mububban · #7 Post by **Mububban** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:05 pm

I own 2 cats, and I love them. However I hate feral cats and would happily shoot some myself if the opportunity presented itself.

I personally don't find hunting appealing, although I can definitely see the use of culling pests. But for people to make videos of "cute fluffy widdle puddy tats" being shot is just stupid and self harming. If you said "We're culling feral cats" everyone would applaud. If you show videos like that, people think you're evil b@stards.

#8 Post by **Stickbow Hunter** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:51 pm

I looked at the preview of that video and it is stupid what they show. Why in world use a kitten that looks like your average pet? Obviously not well thought out as some people would use this against hunters.

However, any responsible hunter will kill every feral cat they can while out in the bush. To not do so is being irresponsible IMO. With 15 million, or whatever the figure is now, of them destroying our native fauna no one can argue that they shouldn't be humanely killed if at all possible.

Nimrod, I think the feral cat issue is different here in Oz than in the UK. Some years ago the Australian Army was used to shoot as many feral cats as they could in a couple of days or a week out near Longreach western Queensland. I think they shot 400 or more of them in that time.

The feral cat is devastating our wildlife and they must be culled and this is understood by most government bodies and any thinking person.

These aren't your average pet cats they are wild, unowned cats that survive on our native wildlife. In some areas they have totally wiped out some of our native species.

Large electric fenced preserves are now being constructed to try and re-establish some native species populations. Patrols around the boundries of these areas are ongoing and trapping of feral cats and foxes is constantly needed.

I will shoot any feral cat I can and I'm not afraid to say so. Just remember to point out to people that they are feral not someone's pet.

Jeff

nimrod · #9 Post by **nimrod** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 9:25 am

Hello jeff in some ways the uk is worse we have all these cat protection twats bringing town cats in for a week feeeding them then throwing them out cats are born killers its there nature we have on average 5-10 cats per week released you can not explain to these people that they are wrong we keep chooks and as such have traps all year round this year since 11.1.06 we have had to kill 75 felines all ex house cats all trapped legal **** me off there skins were all **** to sorry for the rant

#10 Post by **Stickbow Hunter** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 5:11 pm

Hugh,

Yeah I understand your problem. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that where people grow up in concrete jungles they really don't have any idea what goes on in the real world. With a big part of Australia being rural, I think this helps.

Don't worry we still have the cat protection twats here also.

They seem to think there little pussy cats that go bush just live happily ever after. It doesn't seem to enter their minds that the cat has to eat to live and eat it will - your chickens and wild birds and ours.

If a cat isn't locked up at home and is roaming peoples properties and in the bush then it is feral and needs to be destroyed - end of story.

Jeff

buzz · #11 Post by **buzz** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 9:36 pm

Stickbow Hunter wrote: They seem to think there little pussy cats that go bush just live happily ever after. It doesn't seem to enter their minds that the cat has to eat to live and eat it will - your chickens and wild birds and ours.

*shock* horror... you mean some well meaning little elf is passing around cans of Whiskas sardine, tuna and soy medley in extra virgin olive oil and vinagrette?... no, say it isn't true!

Stickbow Hunter wrote: If a cat isn't locked up at home and is roaming peoples properties and in the bush then it is feral and needs to be destroyed - end of story.

Jeff

The line ball call comes when it is a "domesticated"* moggie but it is still terrorising your chooks, aviary or the local wildlife you have spent ages encouraging to visit your semi rural holding. Mrs Mum will tell of her persian pride ribbon winning delight that evil Mr Bowhunter stalked and slayed the nanosecond it looked like setting paw out of her parlour. And doubtless there are legal teams out there to support this. The fact that Ms Kitty was drilled by a well directed broadhead, in the hen house, with chick in mouth will be ignored or downplayed.... in this scenario the cat is the one worthy of protection and Mr Bowhunter protecting the chickens that feed his family is an evil animal cruelty charge waiting to happen menace.

Sorry if I played up the emo side of the argument but that is how it sounds when it hits the media in this country.

*= "domesticated"... I just love that... it is still an animal and will still act on instinct. We all do. Come dinner time, I look for a feed,... I may raid the kitchen or if I am on the road I'll drive past Macca's... in the same way when a cat is hungry it goes to where the tucker is...

BowDonkey · #12 Post by **BowDonkey** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:10 pm

Around my neck of the woods, feral cats are called "ditch tigers or ditch leopards". They are a big menace here also. The general public will NEVER understand the issue of ferals IMHO. So I don't waste my breath explaining the issue to them. Nimrod has the best policy, and if you can throw a few 220 Conibears into your arsenal, so much the better.

GrahameA · #13 Post by **GrahameA** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 8:46 am

Hi All

IMHO the bigger problem of Feral Animals is that the "average public" is not "educated" about them.

The time is not long ago that any snake is Australia was a target for someone to kill. However with a spate of wildlife shows etc. that has changed.

50 years ago Sharks were only a target for death and every shark that was killed was heralded as the "Death of a Man-Eater". Now we have a strong advocacy for the removal of shark nets. My how things change.

Crocodiles were hunted to almst extinction and now we a situation of spending outrageous amounts of money to relocate them.

All of this is a direct result of education and the perception of the animals. What was once thought to be the scourge of the human race is now seen in a different light.

Feral animals exist in the same category. The image we picture of the local moggy is a soft furry kitten. If however we were to start to show them as large very effective predators elimanating native wildlife more effectively than 1080 the picture would change remarkably fast.

It would be inappropriate to show photos of dead ferals as that only elicites emotional responses from the public. What you want instead is images of the feral hunter with a Kookabura in its mouth. Something the public can relate to - a Bilby perhaps. It's a two element thing. Show the cat as a destroyer and show something the public can relate positively to being destroyed.

Do an effective PR campaign on the animal. But that also means that hunters have to act in such a manner that does reinforce a negative stereotype. Really, the ball is our court.

Now if you think the above is not so check out the fishing mags. There has been a subtle shift in the types of photos they show. From a photo of someone with a stack of fish to a carefully selected image of the fish being released back into the environment. The image that is portrayed is everything.

#14 Post by **Stickbow Hunter** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 6:43 pm

Buzz,

In rural areas of say acreages, I would probably use a rifle if it was safe. This would depend on the laws in your state. If in a town area buy a cat trap or get a loan of one from the city council and trap the cats and hand them over to the pound.

Grahame,

There have been programs on TV about feral cats and also ones about some of our endangered native animals and the measures that have to be taken to protect them from feral cats and the fox.

QLD National Parks puts out a good brochure all about feral cats.

Now if you think the above is not so check out the fishing mags. There has been a subtle shift in the types of photos they show. From a photo of someone with a stack of fish to a carefully selected image of the fish being released back into the environment. The image that is portrayed is everything.

Can't go along with this one. No kiss and release of feral cats. As I said earlier any responsible hunter should kill everyone they come across in the bush.

I take photos of any feral cats I shoot and have no problems displaying them in albums. For many years I organized a Bowhunting display at a major recreational show here in Maryborough. There were over 20,000 people who visited this show over a weekend. Our display was at the entrance to a main pavilion and we had not only photos but a skin of a feral cat on display. It sure created some interest but we had an information sheet beside it letting people know it was a feral cat and what damage they do to our native fauna.

I don't kiss and release feral cats I shoot them and I have no intention of hiding that fact. I will however try and educate people why I do so.

Jeff

BattleAxe · #15 Post by **BattleAxe** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 7:05 pm

Yep ,,, it's the ones wearing "flannos"

The image that is portrayed is everything.

GrahameA · #16 Post by **GrahameA** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 8:58 pm

Hi Jeff

Not advocating release of feral cats. Its an image thing.

The organised fishing fraternity has taken some smart moves. Basically avoid showing things being killed and show the fishermen acting in a "responsible" manner.

Same for hunters. Remember some of the photos in "Outdoors" when it was being published. Powered duck pluckers and a pile of corpses did not come across well. Neither did the some of the photos of fishing clubs/fisherman with hundreds of fish.

Feral cats have to go, IMHO, but it needs to be portrayed well. Knowing you you would have been at the show doing your best - and doing it well.

#17 Post by **Stickbow Hunter** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:21 pm

Not advocating release of feral cats. Its an image thing.

I realized that mate.

I still don't think we should be hiding the photos of the feral cats (properly presented ones of course) but we should be explaining why the they were shot. Educate people about the damge they do to our native wildlife.

Jeff

buzz · #18 Post by **buzz** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:31 pm

Stickbow Hunter wrote: I still don't think we should be hiding the photos of the feral cats (properly presented ones of course) but we should be explaining why the they were shot. Educate people about the damge they do to our native wildlife.

Jeff

The circumstances of where they are shot will be very important in explaining to Joe Public the why. Even if it is a "domestic" cat we are not in Grandma's back yard, or on nan's front porch... The picture of a native animal in the cats mouth will help seal it.

On a slightly parallel topic, on the ABC inventors show a week or two back there was a guy who was recycling broken shopping trolleys into cat traps.

hellier · #19 Post by **hellier** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 9:08 am

Here's an idea...I reckon we should all start logging our kills....we can probably guess that most uf us shoot more feral species than anything else....a well presented and concise document showing us bowhunters as gaurdians of native species will be very usefull in presenting any case for the continuance of bowhunting....

aussiehunter · #20 Post by **aussiehunter** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 5:35 pm

we are doing that on tbhga....

cheers pat

Richard · #21 Post by **Richard** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:43 pm

we can probably guess that most uf us shoot more feral species than anything else....

Been a newcomer to these shores I thought that anything that was non native was fair game, and that any native species was off limits (permits for state/federal culls etc excepted).
Could anyone clear this up for me?

#22 Post by **Stickbow Hunter** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:56 pm

Richard,

The dingo is about the only native you can shoot with a bow and arra in QLD.

Jeff

Richard · #23 Post by **Richard** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 9:09 pm

OK, thanks Jeff.
That sounds fair enough to me, though with my present hunting skills if a dingo got close enough to me for me to release an arrow, it must be blind and arthritic