Longbow Shooters

Message

GrahameA · #1 Post by **GrahameA** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 11:59 am

Good Afternoon All

Hmm....... Interesting comment.

http://www.archery-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=90644

buzz · #2 Post by **buzz** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 12:27 pm

He really got off on the wrong foot didn't he!!
I tried several times to drag a little reason and thought into it.

I was considering posing the question about whether instinctive shooting could be considered ethical, or is it strictly only point-of-aim shooting? But I held off.

erron · #3 Post by **erron** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 12:33 pm

Not sure I agree with Coach, but I feel sorry for the treatment he got there. Still, IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m not surprised, I stopped posting on that forum a long while back. They generally show no respect to anyone, and their carry-on does Archery & Bowhunting a disservice, IMHO.

Coach, feel free to post the question here, as it is a valid one, and will be treated respectfullyÃ¢â‚¬Â¦

Erron

Sparra · #4 Post by **Sparra** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 4:34 pm

Gaday Erron...Coach actually posted the same question on TBGA and was treated the same as he has been on AF...The post was deleted by admin...
after only 2 days...i guess some of them shoot longbow and it got up there nose....but as i see it,it was only a question....Actually a few did tell him to post it on here and see how long it would last..
Regards...Sparra

adam · #5 Post by **adam** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 4:55 pm

Coach told me he worded it wrong so I deleted it as it sent to wrong message, But he is more then welcome to post it again if he likes to reword it. There's not just longbow shooters out there that shouldn't hunt. Anyway coach has the right to stir the pot like all of us esp now that I've quit the admin job he he. Adam

yeoman · #6 Post by **yeoman** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 5:40 pm

Grahame,

What have you got me onto?!

I'm on page 3 and quickly growing an aneurism and a hernia, just so that I can burst them both from what they've said on various points in that thread. I don't know wether I should post there from my point of view, or just sit silently and fume.

Dave

GrahameA · #7 Post by **GrahameA** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 5:40 pm

Evening Erron

Excuse my posting in the wrong place.

It is reasonable to suggest that the question was poorly worded. (And that is putting mildy.)

My suggestion would be to read, "Use Enough Gun" by Robert Ruark.

I have difficulties with any argument that blames the tool rather than the tool wielder, an examplar of a short term bureaucratic approach.

Buzz

Howard Hill made an interesting comment concerning "instinctive" shooting. His claim was only the first shot could be claimed to be "instinctive" after that it became an aimed shot as you had a reference, the preceding shot, which was used to modify subsequent shots.

Yeoman

May I suggest a quiet fume in the corner for several days.

Relax and have a pleasant evening doing something you enjoy. Me, I am going to do some editing.

yeoman · #8 Post by **yeoman** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 6:22 pm

Sorry mate, I am doing what I enjoy. Standing up for longbow shooters.

I've got about 2 pages typed up for a response to those posts, and I'm still powering on, so keep an eye on that thread.

Dave

Buford · #9 Post by **Buford** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 6:48 pm

sorry, couldn't resist making a comment.

didn't use the usual archery forum abuse though.

MrRecurve · #10 Post by **MrRecurve** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 8:08 pm

I would love to see him say those things on this forum. Its his right to stir the pot, and my right to tell him what I think. My personal opinion of this guy is that he is a wanker.

I recently bought some arrows from him on another site, and I got the numbers wrong for the electronic deposit, and as a result the transaction took a day or two longer than it should have.

The whole time, I was polite and very apologetic, whilst he was rude, pushy and very unhelpful. Once my arrows had arrived, I pm'd him to let him know that I had recieved them, that I was stoked with how they shot etc, and that it was a pleasure doing business with him.

His reply was "Well post it in the feedback thread then!"

I think for a man of his age, he behaves like a child.

Sparra · #11 Post by **Sparra** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 8:31 pm

Gaday Erron..Mate if you can write 2 pages of reasonably objective dribble to this question can you please post it on AF as there are a few on there that could do with a put down...as i said before it is only a question that really doesn't need to be answered to answer to it....Just my thoughts...
Regards...Sparra

Buford · #12 Post by **Buford** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 8:36 pm

Sparra wrote:Gaday Erron..Mate if you can write 2 pages of reasonably objective dribble to this question can you please post it on AF as there are a few on there that could do with a put down...Regards...Sparra

it's not a good idea to attack people on that site with anything other than polite suggestions that "are you sure about that sir"

.
Else you stand to be completely torn appart for no reason other than they have nothing better to do.

Sparra · #13 Post by **Sparra** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 8:55 pm

Are you sure about that sir????

Buford · #14 Post by **Buford** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 8:59 pm

buzz · #15 Post by **buzz** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 9:36 pm

GrahameA wrote:
Buzz

Howard Hill made an interesting comment concerning "instinctive" shooting. His claim was only the first shot could be claimed to be "instinctive" after that it became an aimed shot as you had a reference, the preceding shot, which was used to modify subsequent shots.

Yes, but
a) HH was a dead set legend, and
b) I think the whole idea is that it should all be up to that first shot.
I was only going to stir a pot for intelligent, considered responses, but as the responses were less than either desired attribute and more were people with obvious personal beef's against the gent, I refrained. Notice I didn't get any substantial responses to my question of what do people consider an ethical distance? Adam and his "20m effective range" is pretty much the only person I remember who was specific and didn't crap on.

GrahameA wrote:
Yeoman
May I suggest a quiet fume in the corner for several days.
Relax and have a pleasant evening doing something you enjoy. Me, I am going to do some editing.

I took a few hacks at what I wrote too.... because I realised that what was in Coach's head wasn't likely exactly what most people read it as. Generally speaking we probably all agree, there are archers (indeed, shooters and doggers) out there who ought not be allowed loose on game.

MrRecurve · #16 Post by **MrRecurve** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 9:48 pm

Yeah but its not just longbow shooters is it? So why single them out? Theres heaps of shooters out there that shouldnt even own a slingshot, let alone a bow of ANY type.

The guy was just looking to start a fight, plain and simple.

yeoman · #17 Post by **yeoman** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 2:41 am

Sick of novels?

Can't sleep?

Have a read of my post.

http://www.archery-forum.com/viewtopic. ... &start=105

Dave

Buford · #18 Post by **Buford** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 7:17 am

did you just cut and paste one of your papers from uni?

partial credit.

GrahameA · #19 Post by **GrahameA** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 7:58 am

Good Morning Recurve and Buzz

(I am not having a go at anyone, so do not read it that way.

)

"Recurve" has raised the question should poor shooters be allowed to own a ????.

From my viewpont it is not a question of ownership. Rather it is a question of appropriate/inappropriate use or behaviour. Such issues are not resolved by stopping people from having access to items but rather by increasing their level of skill and, perhaps, educating them to what is considered to be, by some representative group, as to what is acceptable and what is not. Here you are entering into the mores (morals values) of society and that can be very interesting and rocky ground to be on.

Buzz

1) HH was good, a darn sight better than I ever will.

Having said that he did things that today would result in substantial protest from a section of the hunting fraternity. (Read about the making of the film Tembo.) However, in his time it was not considered an issue and on that basis you cannot criticise him.

3) What is an ethical distance.

Is there a Code of Ethics and if there is what makes it right? Or does one go by some personal code? And if you go by a personal code then that will be the summative result of your experiences and knowledge.

The approach, I hope, I have always followed, is only take the shot I believe I have a reasonable chance of hitting the target with a killing shot. I also have always been a guilty of being overgunned.

So, one day it might be 10 metres with a scoped rifle on Rabbits in light fallen timber and the next day it could be 50 m with the same rifle on a large warren over clear ground.

I have barreled ove a few rabbits using blunts at around the 10 - 20 metre distance but they have been the only things I have hunted with a bow. (And it was a longbow.)

Axe · #20 Post by **Axe** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 9:49 am

wrc.555 wrote:it's not a good idea to attack people on that site with anything other than polite suggestions that "are you sure about that sir" .Else you stand to be completely torn appart for no reason other than they have nothing better to do.

Gotta agree with wrc, because once attacked by that self indulgent buch, one could also have the neanderthal rise from within, but to no avail, as to seek a constructive "discussion" with them would just result in more jibes, & no logic.

WRC, one critisism, I believe the spelling (sir) in this case, is cur.

tracker · #21 Post by **tracker** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 10:50 am

I really enjoyed your "Chopin" analogy Dave. But I'm sure it flew right over their heads.

I was particularly rapt in the brainiac who doesn't like the FACT that his bow was designed to kill people or animals.

It was apparently invented recently to shoot knitting needles at cork boards on Sunday mornings.

Calling it a weapon spoils his "sport". HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA..

The brainpower flying around down there is simply awesome!

Buford · #22 Post by **Buford** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 10:56 am

Axe wrote: WRC, one critisism, I believe the spelling (sir) in this case, is cur.

dang, i's done muzzed it up again!!

MrRecurve · #23 Post by **MrRecurve** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 11:04 pm

Yeah, sorry, didnt mean my comment to be taken quite so literally. Obviously people shouldn't be denied the right to OWN a slingshot, longbow or whatever.

What I meant was, there are people out there that are using all types of weapons to hunt, and who for one reason or another probably shouldnt be. So why single out one demographic? Of course people are going to be insulted.

buzz · #24 Post by **buzz** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 11:42 pm

3) What is an ethical distance.

Is there a Code of Ethics and if there is what makes it right? Or does one go by some personal code? And if you go by a personal code then that will be the summative result of your experiences and knowledge.

The approach, I hope, I have always followed, is only take the shot I believe I have a reasonable chance of hitting the target with a killing shot. I also have always been a guilty of being overgunned.

I think it gets back to personal competence, judgement and harsh reality. Unfortunately I'd expect some people are more wound up in their right to do something than focusing on the skills and practice to do it well. We are not a subsistence society and we don't hunt for self preservation or to eradicate some species for a purpose. It isn't self defence or national security. Hunting for us non-indigenous types is "sport" and I think it is fair to say that if this is the case then there ought to be minimal pain and suffering inflicted upon the target beast. So, depending on the targetted species, the equipment at hand, the skill of the hunter and the conditions, there should be an "effective"/ethical range. Now, some people have different sets of values as to what pain or suffering is appropriate, but there should be a baseline of what is a maximum range and people can work back from there. On a large bodied animal I'd think it would be the distance that you could reliably hit a 6 to 8" target.

I might bounce over to AF for a read... or should I pour a coffee first?

GrahameA · #25 Post by **GrahameA** » Sun May 01, 2005 7:29 am

Good Morning Buzz and Recurve

Recurve

I did take it literally and now I understand what you meant to say.

It is an unfortunate reflection on the "quick fix" society, that we in Sunny Oz currently live in, that a typical approach to dealing with a multitude of issues is to either prohibit their ownership or license their use.

Why is a single demographic singled out - because it is easy, requires little thought, they are probably in the minority and provides a target.

Buzz

You are correct in

personal competence, judgement and harsh reality

As equally you are with

some people are more wound up in their right to do something than focusing on the skills and practice to do it well

Treefingers · #26 Post by **Treefingers** » Wed May 04, 2005 12:31 pm

Thead has make it all the way to the states i.e. Bowsite.com , the "leatherwall". A Traditional bow site in the US. I shoot a longbow myself and never had any problems hitting game! Never missed in 7 years.

erron · #27 Post by **erron** » Wed May 04, 2005 6:54 pm

Treefingers , do you have the name/url of that Leatherwall thread?

thanks,

Erron

yeoman · #28 Post by **yeoman** » Wed May 04, 2005 8:17 pm

http://www.bowsite.com/bowsite/tf/lw/th ... CATEGORY=1

I must say that it was me that started the conversation there, in the hope that some more longbow shooters would come and help my cause.

The first post of mine, by the way, came in at a weighty 1700 words, and took only a couple of hours to write. I've written shorter essays, and the sure took a lot longer than that! I wish I could write them with such speed and fervor though, I'd have all the coursework don in a week!

Dave

erron · #29 Post by **erron** » Wed May 04, 2005 8:35 pm

Thanks Dave!

Erron

Mick Smith · #30 Post by **Mick Smith** » Wed May 04, 2005 8:41 pm

I must be lacking something in my mental makeup (apart from brains that is). I just don't see the point in getting all fired up about this. I've shot a longbow for decades and I don't give a sh@#t what people think.
I reckon the whole thing is silly and not worth even reading. The only reason I'm even writing this is that I'm bored.

Mick