I know this is not Archery

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Roadie
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I know this is not Archery

#1 Post by Roadie » Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:45 am

But it is a dam shame, my neighbour and I have just spent the last 2 days grinding over 4 ton of grape fruit ,mandarins and valencia oranges into the ground. No one seems to want them , can't give them away.. The waste just annoys me.
I do have a recepie for making Orange wine, will give that a go. Cheers Roadie.

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perry
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Re: I know this is not Archery

#2 Post by perry » Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:41 pm

G/Day Grant. The time I came down for your inaugural Shoot I was disgusted at the miles and miles of Roadside Citrus Orchard's that had Fruit rotting on the Tree's and the Ground. What topped it was we went into the local Supermarket at Irymple and it had Californian Oranges for sale. I get angry just thinking about the situation Australian Farmers are in ! So sad that the likes of the 2 major Supermarket are driving prices paid to Farmers down and their profits are up. There are times when Mandy and I simply can not afford to buy Australian Produce so we are contributing to the problem when we buy fresh ????? and processed Fruit that originated from oversea's.

Then we have whats going on with Foreign ownership of our Food Processing be it Dairy, Fruit or Meat and Farmers being paid a pittance for their Produce and going broke all the while Profits go oversea's. How is it that Pineapple from the Philippines is allowed to be sold cheaper than Australian Grown. Look at what happened a couple of years ago with the frozen Chinese Berry's, Australians infected with Hepatitis ??? because this Fruit was fertilised with untreated Human Excrement.

We have allowed our Politicians and Businessmen to sell out our Country and line their Pockets with the Kickbacks whilst Australian Farmers and Brands goes down the Tube. We have a situation where oversea's money is taken in preference to Australian money for our Food Producing Land. Right now it looks like the Kidman Property's are going to be sold Oversea's. We are selling our Water Leases along with these Property's, cutting off our noses to spite our Faces. I despair for my Grandchildren, F@7K the global economy and the top end of Town rubbing our noses in it

regards Perry
"To my deep morticication my father once said to me, 'You care for nothing but shooting, dogs and rat catching, and you will be a disgrace to yourself and all your family.' "

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gazza
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Re: I know this is not Archery

#3 Post by gazza » Tue Oct 25, 2016 6:08 pm

thats the way roadie get in to that orange wine by the time we get there next year it will be ready for drinking lol. only wished i lived near by i would be making wine also :biggrin: gazza.
The older i get the better i was

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Jake13
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Re: I know this is not Archery

#4 Post by Jake13 » Tue Oct 25, 2016 8:06 pm

Roadie wrote:...my neighbour and I have just spent the last 2 days grinding over 4 ton of grape fruit ,mandarins and valencia oranges into the ground. No one seems to want them , can't give them away..
Sad **** indeed. I think you're on the money in thinking about preserving the fruit as an alcoholic beverage. Share your recipe and let us know how it turns out. We have a glut of citrus coming into spring too.

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greybeard
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Re: I know this is not Archery

#5 Post by greybeard » Tue Oct 25, 2016 8:08 pm

Roadie wrote:...........No one seems to want them , can't give them away..........
Roadie, can you elaborate as to why no one wanted the fruit?
perry wrote:G/Day Grant. The time I came down for your inaugural Shoot I was disgusted at the miles and miles of Roadside Citrus Orchard's that had Fruit rotting on the Tree's and the Ground. What topped it was we went into the local Supermarket at Irymple and it had Californian Oranges for sale. I get angry just thinking about the situation Australian Farmers are in ! So sad that the likes of the 2 major Supermarket are driving prices paid to Farmers down and their profits are up. There are times when Mandy and I simply can not afford to buy Australian Produce so we are contributing to the problem when we buy fresh ????? and processed Fruit that originated from oversea's.

Then we have whats going on with Foreign ownership of our Food Processing be it Dairy, Fruit or Meat and Farmers being paid a pittance for their Produce and going broke all the while Profits go oversea's. How is it that Pineapple from the Philippines is allowed to be sold cheaper than Australian Grown. Look at what happened a couple of years ago with the frozen Chinese Berry's, Australians infected with Hepatitis ??? because this Fruit was fertilised with untreated Human Excrement.

We have allowed our Politicians and Businessmen to sell out our Country and line their Pockets with the Kickbacks whilst Australian Farmers and Brands goes down the Tube. We have a situation where oversea's money is taken in preference to Australian money for our Food Producing Land. Right now it looks like the Kidman Property's are going to be sold Oversea's. We are selling our Water Leases along with these Property's, cutting off our noses to spite our Faces. I despair for my Grandchildren, F@7K the global economy and the top end of Town rubbing our noses in it

regards Perry


Perry, if you know what the problem is how would you resolve the issue?

Daryl.
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken.
[Ascham]

“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]

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Roadie
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Re: I know this is not Archery

#6 Post by Roadie » Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:22 am

Daryl, I think the issue is cheaper imports, also the grape fruit market is fickle, one year it's all the rage, next year not so, the Mandarins we good, but the skin was quite nobbly, not smooth, so the people think there was something wrong with them, not so, easy to peel and very sweat and juicy. Oranges ,well cheap imports, and tne Tax they want to put on the Backpackers is not helping. Backpackers are the main group who do the picking. Well Such is Life as some one once said. Cheers Roadie.

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Re: I know this is not Archery

#7 Post by Ian Turner » Wed Oct 26, 2016 2:03 pm

Mate its our useless gutless governments that continue to allow the dumping of subsidized product from overseas to be dumped on our markets at unrealistic prices and they are killing off all our manufacturing and engineering industries and continue to plug this BULL___T about the new economy etc and digitization etc.
Another issue re aussies themselves continuing to buy the cheap dumped product and not standing up and buying the locally produced product.
When we go food shopping we always buy Australian grown and produced product as at least we also know that it meets Australian standards who knows what chemicals etc are used in the O/S PRODUCT!! The berries from China classic example.
They keep plugging this crap about new jobs will be created in the software and tech industries to replace the lost jobs in others.
Yes 1 supposed job created for one highly skilled person a bunch outsourced to overseas and the ordinary aussie looses out all the way.
Think about it people when you go to buy food or whatever what jobs will there be for our kids, grandkids etc.
I hope I am preaching to the converted here on this site.
Cheers
IAN

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Re: I know this is not Archery

#8 Post by greybeard » Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:32 pm

Roadie,

To be fair are you referring to the full time commercial orchardists or the back yard grower?
Roadie wrote:..... I think the issue is cheaper imports........
I shop at my local Drakes Supa IGA and the Australian produce is always cheaper than the imported product. When buying fruit and vegetables I buy what is seasonally available and grown locally and refuse to pay high prices for an imported item to replace an out of season local product.
Roadie wrote:......Mandarins we good, but the skin was quite nobbly, not smooth, so the people think there was something wrong with them.........
A perception created by the advertising agencies, if the skin appears less than perfect the product may be inferior.

You only need to look at the pretty photos used to promote the Golden Arches crappy burgers, Subway and packaged pizzas etc. the finished product rarely resembles the product shown in the photo.
Roadie wrote:.....and tne Tax they want to put on the Backpackers is not helping. Backpackers are the main group who do the picking.........
Do you believe in a level playing field?

A foreigner can do part time work in Australia, earn an income and not pay income tax, an Australian resident carrying out the same job has to pay the applicable rate of income tax.

Perhaps fruit picking could be a good avenue for work for the dole.
Ian Turner wrote:Mate its our useless gutless governments that continue to allow the dumping of subsidized product from overseas to be dumped on our markets......
Ian,

Or is it fuelled by some of the free trade agreements.
Ian Turner wrote:.........they are killing off all our manufacturing and engineering industries.........
Who is responsible for the Australian worker [wages and conditions] being non competitive in a global market, the government or the unions?

Why did the Ford Motor Company cease production of their Cortina motor vehicle in Mexico?

Daryl.
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken.
[Ascham]

“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]

I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....

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GrahameA
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Re: I know this is not Archery

#9 Post by GrahameA » Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:01 am

Morning Daryl, Grant and others.

Just as an example..
greybeard wrote:
Roadie wrote:.....and tne Tax they want to put on the Backpackers is not helping. Backpackers are the main group who do the picking.........
Do you believe in a level playing field?

A foreigner can do part time work in Australia, earn an income and not pay income tax, an Australian resident carrying out the same job has to pay the applicable rate of income tax.
Many issues are not as "Black and White" or "simple" as they are sometimes portrayed or people try to suggest. Simplistic answers do not solve Complex problems.

Similarly workable solutions are often not palatable. Then there is/are unintended consequences.

The concept of "foreign workers" being allowed before even mentioning "taxing/not taxing" is often disvisive. Equally implementing (trade) barriers is likely to be met by (trade) barriers at the other end.

Regards
Grahame.
Grahame.
Shoot a Selfbow, embrace Wood Arrows, discover Vintage, be a Trendsetter.

"Unfortunately, the equating of simplicity with truth doesn't often work in real life. It doesn't often work in science, either." Dr Len Fisher.

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Roadie
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Re: I know this is not Archery

#10 Post by Roadie » Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:56 am

Morning All, to be fair as you come down my driveway you will see at least 2 rows of Grapefruit, 20 trees in all. On the other side is 14 Orange Trees, we are surrounded by 22 acres of Sultana grapes. Down the back is another Orange Grove of 40 trees, plus Mandarin, aswell as Lemon trees, this year over 10 tonne of fruit was taken off the lemon trees.
I personally think all fruit pickers should not have to pay Tax on the money they earn, it's little enough, plus the working conditions are not great. Hot, can be dusty, temps can reach high 30 to low 40 in our area.. Also this year has seen an over abundance of fruit. It's just a pity I can't find people who want it, FREE.. Cheers Roadie

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greybeard
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Re: I know this is not Archery

#11 Post by greybeard » Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:10 pm

Ian Turner wrote:............allow the dumping of subsidized product from overseas to be dumped on our markets at unrealistic prices ..........
Ian, some interesting reading;

http://gain.fas.usda.gov/Recent%20GAIN% ... 1-2014.pdf

More in depth reading;

http://www.agriculture.gov.au/SiteColle ... 012-13.pdf

Daryl.
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken.
[Ascham]

“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]

I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....

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GrahameA
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Re: I know this is not Archery

#12 Post by GrahameA » Fri Oct 28, 2016 6:39 am

Morning All.
I wonder if farmers in China and the US complain about Australian farmers dumping product in their country and causing problems for their farmers?
Roadie wrote:... I personally think all fruit pickers should not have to pay Tax on the money they earn, it's little enough, plus the working conditions are not great. Hot, can be dusty, temps can reach high 30 to low 40 in our area..
All good, as long as you accept the consequences of that approach. As an aside I would suggest that with increasing mechanisation/automation/etc. the demand for 'Fruit Pickers' will continue to decrease.
Grahame.
Shoot a Selfbow, embrace Wood Arrows, discover Vintage, be a Trendsetter.

"Unfortunately, the equating of simplicity with truth doesn't often work in real life. It doesn't often work in science, either." Dr Len Fisher.

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Re: I know this is not Archery

#13 Post by Sabinus » Fri Oct 28, 2016 5:10 pm

Hey guys,
Just to muddy the waters further on this topic.....
Living in SA, we have prime citrus growing all throughout what we call' the Riverland' - towns on the (once) mighty Murray River such as Berri and Renmark - we ought to have pristine citrus fruit available in abundance.
Well bugger me, but to go to the supermarket, and walk past the big, juicy, perfect Californian Navel oranges to faithfully grab a bag of our own Riverland grown product....is to be severely let down. The product these days is flat-out second rate. Small, green tinged fruit that doesn't taste very good. (and no - I didn't accidentally buy the limes!!)
Now I'm certainly not saying that our citrus farmers can't put out a premium product - they have experience and expertise equal to anyone, and our climate could not be more perfect.
What's my point? I don't have one. Just the suspicion that our primo citrus is going somewhere else, and not just down the road to our supermarkets. It's painful as hell to admit, but I now go straight to those Californian Navels. They're simply a far superior product.
I can't speak for the local supplies of fruit that you guys have access to, or your local citrus industries - but ours seem to shuttle their good gear off somewhere else or to be used for something else, rather than landing in our local supermarkets and proudly representing themselves to the shopping public...

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GrahameA
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Re: I know this is not Archery

#14 Post by GrahameA » Sat Oct 29, 2016 6:04 am

Morning All.
Sabinus wrote:Just to muddy the waters further on this topic.....
... I can't speak for the local supplies of fruit that you guys have access to, or your local citrus industries - but ours seem to shuttle their good gear off somewhere else or to be used for something else, rather than landing in our local supermarkets and proudly representing themselves to the shopping public...
Your comments highlight another facet of a complex issue. We live in a 'Market Based Economy' like it or not. Generally 'Price' is determined by 'Supply and Demand', 'Sellers' seek the highest return 'Price' and 'Buyers' seek the lowest cost.

If a Seller/Buyer can get a better return (better price) from a particular market they will gravitate there.

The argument has been put forward, for many years, that the better 'Seafood', etc., in Qld is exported. I do not know if it is correct or not, however, it provides fodder for conversation.

The same conversation is easily extended to archery equipment. :-)
Last edited by GrahameA on Sat Oct 29, 2016 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Grahame.
Shoot a Selfbow, embrace Wood Arrows, discover Vintage, be a Trendsetter.

"Unfortunately, the equating of simplicity with truth doesn't often work in real life. It doesn't often work in science, either." Dr Len Fisher.

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Re: I know this is not Archery

#15 Post by temudjin » Sat Oct 29, 2016 5:06 pm

Hmmmm, this is as Graeme says like most things more complex than it at first appears. I worked in the supermarket industry in Australia for 15 years and there are a couple of realities here:

1. Customers "buy" with their eyes first and foremost. If it looks different to what they expect - smaller, bumpier, smoother, oddly shaped or coloured - then the customers will not pick it up and buy it. Back when we all bought fruit and veg from the local fruiterer, he would offer a taste to reassure the customer all was good. As we moved to Supermarket chains prices came down for a number of reasons - more efficient supply chains, volume buying, less staff, less waste as a result of buying fruit to a standard, no free taste samples and so on. And in the process we lost knowledgeable, expert and personal service - when was the last time you were offered a taste test in a Supermarket Fruit & Veg dept?

2. All fruit and veg is perishable - from the moment it is picked it is losing moisture and therefore weight. Things like lettuce are "gone" in only a few days while potatoes and apples can last many, many months - especially when refrigerated and/or stored in a modified atmosphere where they remove oxygen and add of nitrogen and other inert gases.

3. In citrus (particularly oranges) and also apples there is an enormous worldwide frozen and concentrated juice market. Have a look at most juice products on the supermarket shelves and you will see they are all made of "reconstituted " juice. What is that I hear you ask? It's juice concentrate with water added (to reconstitute it) that is bottled and presented/marketed to look like "fresh" juice. The concentrate and frozen juices reduce the overall weight and cube of the product (compared to fresh fruit) and greatly extend the shelf life while halting pretty much all loss of moisture and weight as well as allowing easier transport over long distances. When last I was involved (nearly 20 years ago) the world's biggest producer of frozen orange juice was Brazil. They busily deforested the Amazon basin and farmed oranges and beef - terrible hey? But of course our ancestors did the same thing here in Australia 200 years ago to allow grazing of cattle and sheep and the farming of wheat and other crops.

4. In a "healthy" and fair economy, as demand changes then suppliers adjust their practices to allow for the change. Of course fruit trees take years to grow and start producing fruit so it is tough to change direction quickly to suit a fickle market. And of course we have 80% of the grocery market in this country controlled by two very big players in Woolies and Coles - add Aldi and the total is 90%. Just look at the fresh milk market to see the power of these very big players. But of course I don't see customers NOT buying fresh milk at $1 a litre. Fresh milk is very perishable - it's either fresh, or its UHT or it's powdered or it's cheese. And try being a milk farmer - it's seven days a week and 52 weeks a year as the cows must be milked twice daily regardless.

5. And of course all "democratic" and "capitalist" economies have governments that buy votes with special favours to selected groups in the population - especially those that can afford lobbyists and political donations or that can direct votes to a particular candidate or party. Special tariffs and taxes or tax benefits, public investments in specific locations, government grants and so on all cost the tax payer while benefiting specific sections of the community. When income tax was introduced in Australia in 1903 (I think) it was 3% of earnings for only the wealthiest. Now only a little over 110 ears later the total tax take by the Australian Government if close to 40% of the economy. And we currently have almost half a trillion dollars of debt - it won't be our kids paying it off, it will be our grandkids and their kids. But I don't know anyone who sent back Mr Rudd's cheque for $900 a few short years ago.

Alright, it's time for me to get off my soap box. The real issue is that human's are selfish and will take whatever they can get to keep their genes alive and multiplying in the future. Maybe mother nature will wipe us all out and start again with ants or bees one day??

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Roadie
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Re: I know this is not Archery

#16 Post by Roadie » Sat Oct 29, 2016 5:36 pm

Thanks Temudjin, it sure is a complex issue, hopefully next we meet I will have some orange wine to share with you.
Cheers Roadie. :Bow

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GrahameA
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Re: I know this is not Archery

#17 Post by GrahameA » Sat Oct 29, 2016 5:47 pm

Afternoon Tom and Grant.

IMO It is an extremely complex issue. It has barely been scratched on these forum posts. Personal Income Tax in Aus'. Now there is a long and complex story. :-)
Grahame.
Shoot a Selfbow, embrace Wood Arrows, discover Vintage, be a Trendsetter.

"Unfortunately, the equating of simplicity with truth doesn't often work in real life. It doesn't often work in science, either." Dr Len Fisher.

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