Having a B**ch

General discussions. Politics, scuttlebutt, whatever: you're getting married, changing jobs, got a gripe or a compliment, dying to get out with the bow etc.....

Moderator: Moderators

Message
Author
User avatar
Ronster
Posts: 360
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:44 pm
Location: Meringandan West, Qld

Re: Having a B**ch

#31 Post by Ronster » Fri Sep 16, 2016 1:42 pm

WHATEVER

I am done with this. :hand: :violin:

Ronster
I would love to be an expert, but experience and lack of knowledge holds me back!

Bows:-
Raven Vanquish 62" TD Recurve 44# @ 28"
Beaver 64" Longbow 41# @ 27"
Bear Montana 64" Longbow 50# @ 28"
Win & Win Winact ILF Riser and Win & Win Pro accent ILF carbon foam limbs 48# @ 28"

User avatar
BowmanBjorn
Posts: 145
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:23 pm
Location: Cairns

Re: Having a B**ch

#32 Post by BowmanBjorn » Fri Sep 16, 2016 6:51 pm

Hi clingfish,

I think what they are trying to put across is that the rules are created by those motivated and committed to fight for what they believe is true.

Your right they aren't perfect but the rules they shoot by are the rules they believe in.

You can always get involved with TAA, your local club etc and BE one of the people that help to guide the club/ movement towards an ideal.

Bigger isn't always better. My belief now after spending some time around the community (and trust me I'm more bull headed than most) that if a club has the members it wants and they all enjoy shooting the style of archery they choose then it's the correct rules for that club.

We live in a time when continually growing sales, profits and power are apparently what is the right way to go. I'm not so sure. A stable happy and product club I think is priority. And at the End of the day this site (as I've learned) along with the TAA have been set up to preserve the history of pre compound archery as best as the organisers can.

There is nothing wrong with voicing your opinion as long a the expectation isn't that an opinion deserves to be agreed with. We all have our opinions and have a right to them but equally the greater community had the right to agree or disagree.

Like I said in my earlier post I have similar ideals to yours however I've worked out the best way to get what I want is to work from within my local club to achieve change which so far has been successful.

DD
Centaur Triple carbon elite 2pce 60# @30"
Thunderstick MOAB 50# @30"
Flat line Raptor 45# @30"
Norseman Wrath 2pce 54# @30"
Norseman trilam ELB 104# @ 32"

gazza
Posts: 263
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:12 pm
Location: deception bay qld

Re: Having a B**ch

#33 Post by gazza » Fri Sep 16, 2016 7:40 pm

well said mate ,gazza.
The older i get the better i was

little arrows
Posts: 2761
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 2:14 pm
Location: Sunshine Coast QLD

Re: Having a B**ch

#34 Post by little arrows » Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:22 pm

good on you Bjorn, well said.
cheers
sue

User avatar
GrahameA
Posts: 4691
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 4:28 pm
Location: Welcome to Brisneyland, Oz

Re: Having a B**ch

#35 Post by GrahameA » Sat Sep 17, 2016 7:34 am

Morning Clingish.

Rules are essentially an agreement amongst people concernning how something is conducted. Clubs/people who have Trad events decide on a set 'Rules' and run the event to them. Clubs (usually) have the freedom to set whatever rules they wish. People have the choice to attend or not. If they implement rules that some people do not like then some people will not go.

It is a balancing act between appealing to some people and not appealing to others - it seems rather difficult to make everyone happy. :-)
Grahame.
Shoot a Selfbow, embrace Wood Arrows, discover Vintage, be a Trendsetter.

"Unfortunately, the equating of simplicity with truth doesn't often work in real life. It doesn't often work in science, either." Dr Len Fisher.

User avatar
Kendaric
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:01 pm

Re: Having a B**ch

#36 Post by Kendaric » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:15 pm

Axe wrote:
Steve wrote:Grahame. Bravo. You have in one condescending post managed to highlight why people like myself have no time for clubs and people like yourself..

Well said Steve, I agree whole heartedly and couldn't have said it better myself :Axe
I can't help feel that you are being a little unfair on Grahame here. He is just stating an impartial fact about the nature of this Trad forum, and Trad in general. In some ways, depending on how you chose to read this, it could be seen as him trying to help you.

User avatar
Kendaric
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:01 pm

Re: Having a B**ch

#37 Post by Kendaric » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:16 pm

Steve wrote:to highlight why people like myself have no time for clubs and people like yourself..


Then perhaps you need to look at yourself and ask why.
Last edited by Kendaric on Sat Sep 17, 2016 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Kendaric
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:01 pm

Re: Having a B**ch

#38 Post by Kendaric » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:29 pm

Ronster wrote:
If you like the rules, then go enjoy yourselves. If you don't like the rules DON'T GO.

Please enjoy your own style and needs that you all have, but leave the Trad scene alone.
It ain't broke and it don't need fixing.


WHATEVER

I am done with this. :hand: :violin:

Ronster
Don't be done with this, your point holds true for the majority of trad shooters and is valid, and nicely put.

User avatar
clinton miller
Posts: 872
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:51 pm
Location: in the hills south of Stanthorpe, Qld.

Re: Having a B**ch

#39 Post by clinton miller » Thu Sep 22, 2016 10:45 am

Ronster wrote:I was not going to comment again, but cant help it.

A club and its members who volunteer their hard work and time, make the rules of a shoot.
If you like the rules, then go enjoy yourselves. If you don't like the rules DON'T GO.

I attend between 6-8 different Trad shoots a year, where there are between 70-100+ archers having a great time just getting together for a full weekend of fun without the need to argue this point over and over.

Please enjoy your own style and needs that you all have, but leave the Trad scene alone.
It aint broke and it don't need fixing.


Ronster
Let me guess. The same 70-100 people?

The point should be the encouragement of participation and that means being inclusive not exclusive. Most beginners start out with modern trad then perhaps become more interested in woods later. Should beginners be on their own until they start shooting wood?

TAA- is that timber arrows Australia?

No wonder I just hunt.
The degree of satisfaction gained from the accomplishment of a goal is directly proportional to the hardships and challenges overcome in order to achieve it.

border black douglas recurve 70# & 58# HEX6-H BB2 limbs
brigalow selfbow with rawhide string

User avatar
Kendaric
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:01 pm

Re: Having a B**ch

#40 Post by Kendaric » Fri Sep 23, 2016 1:07 pm

clinton miller wrote: TAA- is that timber arrows Australia?
I like it!
clinton miller wrote: No wonder I just hunt.
Well with the options of ABA, IFFA, AA, and 3DAAA offering you bow divisions that will allow scoring with carbons - it would seem that there are other reasons you just hunt. There is nothing wrong with you wanting to be a barebow recurve shooter with carbons, but it is just not what this particular group is about. You don't have to like it, but that is no need to belittle their preferred methodology. You don't rock up to a 202 Holden Stock Car race, and expect to be able to compete with your VS Commodore, and complain about inclusiveness because they all have a steering wheel.

As to the argument about kids shooting - that is just rhetoric. If kids join a specific TRAD club, they shoot timbers. If they join an ABA club, they may shoot carbons, depending on the division they may be shooting in. Honestly, at Trad shoots, the kids pretty much shoot what they like, and often at distances they feel comfortable with. It is not taken that seriously, as they just want the kids to have fun.

I can appreciate the attractions of carbons, they are fairly robust for target practice, and often little thought has to be put into them, when you can pick them up ready made off ebay or aliexpress out of China for like $2 ea. Who wouldn't want a cheap supply of ready made, semi disposable source of arrows.

User avatar
GrahameA
Posts: 4691
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 4:28 pm
Location: Welcome to Brisneyland, Oz

Re: Having a B**ch

#41 Post by GrahameA » Fri Sep 23, 2016 5:36 pm

Afternoon.
Kendaric wrote:... I can appreciate the attractions of carbons, they are fairly robust for target practice, and often little thought has to be put into them, when you can pick them up ready made off ebay or aliexpress out of China for like $2 ea. Who wouldn't want a cheap supply of ready made, semi disposable source of arrows.
Hmm..... Easton X10s with Tungsten points. Yep, although I would consider them not quite semi-disposable. :-)
Grahame.
Shoot a Selfbow, embrace Wood Arrows, discover Vintage, be a Trendsetter.

"Unfortunately, the equating of simplicity with truth doesn't often work in real life. It doesn't often work in science, either." Dr Len Fisher.

User avatar
Kendaric
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:01 pm

Re: Having a B**ch

#42 Post by Kendaric » Fri Sep 23, 2016 5:59 pm

GrahameA wrote:Afternoon.
Hmm..... Easton X10s with Tungsten points. Yep, although I would consider them not quite semi-disposable. :-)
Kendaric wrote:ready made off ebay or aliexpress out of China
Not quite the same thing, but I get your point.

little arrows
Posts: 2761
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 2:14 pm
Location: Sunshine Coast QLD

Re: Having a B**ch

#43 Post by little arrows » Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:46 pm

I do hope we will be seeing you at the Stanthorpe Trad shoot Clinton, seeing as they have a Modern category.
Just as a by-the-by it isn't the same 70+ Trad archers at all the shoots, as some don't travel too far from home, others travel from state to state, again that is a choice made at the time.

The following is just a general observation for all and not directed at anyone in particular:
There are claims that opening it up to all inclusive will somehow increase the numbers, I doubt that very much, there are already clubs that do have an open policy and the numbers are still low. You can't please most of the people most of the time.
It does basically come down to: Do you want to go and shoot at any particular shoot or don't you. Should you choose not to attend, then you're the one missing out.

I also wasn't going to comment, but what the heck, in for a penny in for a pound. Neither camp is going to convert the other are we. :)

cheers
sue

User avatar
GrahameA
Posts: 4691
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 4:28 pm
Location: Welcome to Brisneyland, Oz

Re: Having a B**ch

#44 Post by GrahameA » Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:49 pm

Evening Sue.
little arrows wrote:... There are claims that opening it up to all inclusive will somehow increase the numbers, ...
I would like to see an example where opening up divisions has resulted in an increas of attendees.

The other year AA created a 70+ division. Outcome nil change.

There is a suggestion that perhaps a better way to go is to reduce the number of divisions.
Grahame.
Shoot a Selfbow, embrace Wood Arrows, discover Vintage, be a Trendsetter.

"Unfortunately, the equating of simplicity with truth doesn't often work in real life. It doesn't often work in science, either." Dr Len Fisher.

User avatar
Kendaric
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:01 pm

Re: Having a B**ch

#45 Post by Kendaric » Sun Oct 02, 2016 2:18 pm

GrahameA wrote:There is a suggestion that perhaps a better way to go is to reduce the number of divisions.
Wouldn't make a scrap of difference, and the opposite is more likely true.

And then there is the extreme like ABA where there are multiple divisions, and sadly enough, many different classes. Every one gets a prize. But they get the numbers.

User avatar
clinglish
Posts: 955
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2004 9:40 pm
Location: Perth

Re: Having a B**ch

#46 Post by clinglish » Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:27 pm

.[/quote]

And then there is the extreme like ABA where there are multiple divisions, and sadly enough, many different classes. Every one gets a prize. But they get the numbers.[/quote]


So what your saying Kendrick is that by opening it up to all the variations of traditional archery, the ABA clubs get larger numbers to their shoots. But you have an isse that too many people get prizes?
That boggles my mind.
How can you see including as many people in a shoot as possible as a negative, more people shooting bows is better for everyone, not just a select group of elitists who don't like to share
Bowhunting (Hunting for Bows)
Known Carrier of "Fox Bow Fever"

User avatar
Kendaric
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:01 pm

Re: Having a B**ch

#47 Post by Kendaric » Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:01 pm

No I wasn't quite saying that, but can understand that that is the impression it may have left. I was just a counter, and not expressed well or fully.

Many an ABA shoot I have attended where less than 100 shooters attended. What I was just pointing out is that ABA is an extreme of divisions and classes, and the common joke about it is that "everybody gets a prize" - and that is within ABA members themselves, for which I am also. ABA has the numbers when it comes to membership (partly because most of its members are compound shooters), but that doesn't always equate to turn out for an event, regardless of the number of divisions. I also know of ABA shooters who will change divisions they are in, too increase their chances, due to less shooters in that division. I also know of ABA shooters who 'hold back' with their scores, to remain in the class they are in, so they can win that class on that day of the specific comp.

Who would not want people to get prizes when they have worked hard for it and deserve it. I'm not saying it is like the end of year junior soccer match, were everyone gets a trophy for participating.

If you want to shoot your carbons from a non-compound barebow, and consider that 'traditional', then by all means do so, and consider it such to you. You don't have to convince anyone, so you can convince yourself.
Last edited by Kendaric on Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Gringa Bows
Posts: 6331
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:09 pm
Location: Bundaberg QLD

Re: Having a B**ch

#48 Post by Gringa Bows » Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:39 pm

How about if you dont like the way things are, you go and start your own club and make your own rules to attract the numbers,and us old buggers just stick to what we love to do with our pretty wooden arrows and enjoying what we do,i bet we smile a lot more

User avatar
ron300wm
Posts: 101
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2012 3:10 pm
Location: Gympie, Qld 4570

Re: Having a B**ch

#49 Post by ron300wm » Mon Oct 03, 2016 5:26 pm

In sport there is a winner and a looser and in sport we play by a set of rules.
I wood love to shoot carbons to But it is not the dun thing . :character-mrt:

User avatar
perry
Posts: 1924
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 9:59 pm
Location: morayfield qld australia

Re: Having a B**ch

#50 Post by perry » Tue Oct 04, 2016 12:31 pm

Years ago at one of Joh" Bjelke-Petersen's infamous Chook feedings he told the Media that "If you walk with a leg each side of a Barbed Wire Fence something is bound to get caught up " A truer statement has never been said re trying to keep everyone happy at an Archery Tournament.

regards Perry
"To my deep morticication my father once said to me, 'You care for nothing but shooting, dogs and rat catching, and you will be a disgrace to yourself and all your family.' "

- Charles Darwin

User avatar
clinglish
Posts: 955
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2004 9:40 pm
Location: Perth

Re: Having a B**ch

#51 Post by clinglish » Tue Oct 04, 2016 3:32 pm

perry wrote:Years ago at one of Joh" Bjelke-Petersen's infamous Chook feedings he told the Media that "If you walk with a leg each side of a Barbed Wire Fence something is bound to get caught up " A truer statement has never been said re trying to keep everyone happy at an Archery Tournament.

regards Perry
I literally had tears streaming down my face reading that, Cheers Perry.

Ron300wm
In sport there is a winner and a looser and in sport we play by a set of rules.
My original post was, why the line in the sand was drawn where it was? I was more than happy to participate and not be in the running to win but that wasn't an option according to the rules.
I didn't see why carbon arrows were excluded, of all the equipment types that are used in "Trad" archery today.
To flip the question on it's head.

What benefit is it to restrict 1 particular component type for a group shoot?
Bowhunting (Hunting for Bows)
Known Carrier of "Fox Bow Fever"

Post Reply