2nd question for the 2nd week

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littlejohn59

2nd question for the 2nd week

#1 Post by littlejohn59 » Thu Sep 25, 2014 7:43 pm

Target Panic!

Have you ever suffered from Target Panic?

How did you know you had target panic?

How did you solve your Target Panic, if you have?


I have been fortunate not to suffer from this dreaded and insidious archer's disease.

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DavidM
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Re: 2nd question for the 2nd week

#2 Post by DavidM » Thu Sep 25, 2014 7:50 pm

Yes I often panic when I see a target little john particularly when you have already shot and nailed it and expect me to do the same. Oh the pressure.

As for real target panic, No (touchwood)

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Mick Smith
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Re: 2nd question for the 2nd week

#3 Post by Mick Smith » Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:23 pm

Target panic! It has been the bane of my archery for many years. Like migraine headaches, target panic comes when you least expect it and when you least want it. And then it stays and stays, unlike the migraine .....

I know a lot about target panic. I have fully researched it. I felt that I needed to fully understand it to be able to get rid of it.

Without going into too much detail, target panic is what happens when your subconscious overrides your conscious. I know it sounds a bit weird, but if you delve into exactly how your brain works, it starts to make some sense. Your subconscious is actually 'you' and your conscious is a part of your brain that serves the subconscious. You feel as though your conscious is really 'you', but it isn't. This has been proven scientifically many times.

Have you ever wondered how people can do very complex movements without conscious thought? To catch a ball, to ride a bicycle, to run and to do most of the things we take for granted, we rely on our subconscious. If we think about these things with out conscious mind, we suddenly become klutzes.

Target panic is what happens when the subconscious says 'SHOOT!', but the conscious says 'DON'T SHOOT!'. The subconscious wins, as it's really the boss. The subconscious isn't very bright. It needs to be trained and sometimes it needs to be retrained by our intellectually superior conscious.

I knew I had target panic when I started to shake and generally carry on the a two bob watch, when trying to get my bow back to full draw. Well, initially I didn't know it was target panic, I just thought I was going nuts. I was fighting an internal conflict between my conscious and my subconscious. I would release the arrow well before reaching full draw and I would release it well before I was ready. When it was at its worst, I would release the arrow immediately I saw the target regardless of where I was in the draw. When it was at its worst, I came very close to giving archery away all together.

How to beat it? You never actually beat it. Its comes upon you at any time and you must be ready for it. However, I'm much better now after going through the following steps.

(1) Practice and practice your form and just your form. To disengage the subconscious from taking over, you must do away with the visual aspects of the shot. This means practicing drawing the bow with your eyes closed, over and over for hundreds, if not thousands of times. You must get it ingrained in your subconscious, how it should feel to come to a proper full draw. To do this, you have to do it multiple times.

(2) Actually shoot lots and lots of arrows into the butt at very close range with your eyes closed. Just concentrate on pure form and nothing else.

(3) I found it a huge advantage to be able to actually feel when I had reached full draw. How I did this was to cut my arrows so that I could feel the tip with my index finger of my bow hand. I would raise this finger and feel for the slight bump where the point meets the shaft. I incorporated this into my form. I couldn't allow myself to shoot until I could feel the tip. It served much that same purpose as a clicker in target archery.

(4) For many years, I wouldn't actually look at the target consciously until I had reached full draw. I don't have to do this now, thank goodness.

These days, target panic for me is fairly rare. It will still pop up during most trad events that I attend, but it will only ruin about one shot in 20 at worst. When it does happen, I don't get all worried about it. I just go through my little 'anti target panic procedure' and usually I'm back on track for the next shot.

I can remember shooting at Leongatha about 4 years back and my target panic went into overdrive for some reason. I shot like an idiot for the whole morning, with arrows going all over the place. It was embarrassing, frankly.
By lunchtime I had it under control and then I probably shot the best I ever have.
There is no use focusing on aiming if you don't execute the shot well enough to hit what your are aiming at.

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rodlonq
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Re: 2nd question for the 2nd week

#4 Post by rodlonq » Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:28 pm

I don't think I've ever let go of the string without a conscious decision to do so, so I would say no. I can see how it would be a problem but I am a bit of a control freak so I hope I never succumb to it.

Thanks for the in-depth description of the problem Mick, I wasn't sure what target panic is.

Another good question Little John.

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Roadie
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Re: 2nd question for the 2nd week

#5 Post by Roadie » Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:21 pm

No, Next Question. Cheers Roadie.

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Bent Stick
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Re: 2nd question for the 2nd week

#6 Post by Bent Stick » Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:32 pm

When it turns and charges gets pretty close to panic
If your not having fun, your doing it for all the wrong reasons

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Mick Smith
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Re: 2nd question for the 2nd week

#7 Post by Mick Smith » Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:58 pm

Roadie wrote:No, Next Question. Cheers Roadie.
No Roadie, you've got to wait until next week. :wink:
There is no use focusing on aiming if you don't execute the shot well enough to hit what your are aiming at.

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Scrub Bull
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Re: 2nd question for the 2nd week

#8 Post by Scrub Bull » Fri Sep 26, 2014 6:51 am

I panic when I've been out hunting for a week and not found a target to shoot at. :lol:
Archery is a simple game, it's the mind that over complicates it.
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Roadie
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Re: 2nd question for the 2nd week

#9 Post by Roadie » Fri Sep 26, 2014 9:26 am

Ay Mark, there's plenty of Targets out there, most of them not eatable. Have to admit Panic may happen when a Scrub Turkey turns on you, sharp claws & beak. Cheers Roadie.

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AndyF
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Re: 2nd question for the 2nd week

#10 Post by AndyF » Fri Sep 26, 2014 9:58 am

Yep, I've had it in varying degrees for about four years. I'm usually ok during practice, but put a 'scoring' target etc in front of me and I get quickly worse. Sometimes it's an unprompted release, mostly it's not being able to get to full draw (despite easily shooting a 100lb+ war bow I often can't get a 50lb bow to anchor). Rarely, if ever, do I make what I would call a confident shot in comps. Every shot is a struggle, and like Mick, it's almost prompted me to give it all up.

Have tried much of what Mick Smith mentions. My general form and process is pretty good I think, but problem is lack of free time and space to really work on it. I shall conquer it one day though.

I would not wish TP on anyone.

A

cb175
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Re: 2nd question for the 2nd week

#11 Post by cb175 » Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:35 pm

Yes. I have it now. Exactly as Mick has described. I can practice close up and all is fine. Get back to 15 - 20 meters and it is soooooo hard to consciously come to full draw. Have had it off and on all my shooting life. It caused me to give archery away on a couple of occasions, but keep coming back for some more self flagellation! Bloody frustrating. When it goes away occasionally, it feels wonderful.

I'll get there & beat it!

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Re: 2nd question for the 2nd week

#12 Post by DrAK DaRippa » Sat Sep 27, 2014 4:22 am

i've never known that this is what people mean by target panic, and i'm puzzled as to why a light bow could cause this too.
i presumed that it was more along the lines of pride before the fall, having a bad shot due to a bad mindset and the like.

in aerial shooting when the target might veer off and any shots could go in astray, drawing while deciding if the line of fire is safe and being able to 'cancel' your shot is important. That said, many arrows have been lost deciding i might hit the target and not have to go looking, it ends up being a strong motivator.

how to fix it? i dont know, but i've noticed that in addition to form, focusing on feeling strong helps me draw and shoot better.
and a thing worth a mention in terms if mindsets, i think it's extremely important not to let the quality of shooting affect confidence too much

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Kendaric
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Re: 2nd question for the 2nd week

#13 Post by Kendaric » Sat Sep 27, 2014 10:53 am

Target panic, gold shyness, buck fever, are just couple of names used to describe this condition.

Micks explanation is correct. The subconscious mind likes doing things in the quickest and easiest way. This is completely normal. In other sports, this is actually a boon, but in archery it is not.

I've seen a lot of compound shooters get this with a release aid, particularly if they change something, like increasing the poundage or changing release-aids. It is such a common problem with compound shooters, it has spurred all types of release-aids to combat it like back tension releases (which most aren't really, they are rolling releases), surprise releases etc, which to my mind only exacerbates the problem. Often when they go back to fingers, the problem disappears.

It is probably the seconded biggest reason why people give up archery.

This also seems to be more common with sighted, or point of aim shooters, and a little less common with 'intuitive' shooters.

Getting past it does not happen over night. Understanding it is the first step in beating it - like Mick said.

Suggestions to add to those already stated:

1. Remove any sighting mechanism.
2. Shoot at a blank target with no target face, at close distances <15 metres
3. When shooting, look at only the target butt - remove any conscience reference to gap or point of aim.
4. If you can, reduce the poundage you normally shoot, by at least 10-15# (this I believe is a major step forward).
5. When you draw the bow, make it your intention not to actually shoot the bow. Whilst doing all of this, make a conscience effort to hold the bow at full draw for a few seconds, and then choose to release the arrow, or not release the arrow (and come down).
6. Go back to basics - think about each of the 9 steps of archery form, starting with your feet.
7. Focus on and enjoy the gracefullness and pleasure of the shot - this will also help stave off any boredom at shooting at a blank target.

It normally takes about 28 'sessions' to re-train the sub-conscious.

I have also seen some with this problem, instead, adapt snap shooting as there preferred shooting method and become effective snap shooters.

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Jim
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Re: 2nd question for the 2nd week

#14 Post by Jim » Sat Sep 27, 2014 5:03 pm

I don't think I've ever suffered from it. Although while shooting this afternoon, I had drawn the arrow about 3 inches off full draw when my son (3) who was standing right behind me, said "fire dad!". Without any thought at all I let go of the string. Blew my group right out. Little bugger has Jedi powers.
"Structural Integrity of the entire arrow system is THE most important factor in terminal arrow performance. When structural integrity fails nothing else about your arrow's design matters."
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hardgainer
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Re: 2nd question for the 2nd week

#15 Post by hardgainer » Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:49 pm

Never suffered.
After watching the guy on *Deliverance* the movie was determined was never going to.

littlejohn59

Re: 2nd question for the 2nd week

#16 Post by littlejohn59 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:06 pm

I agree with kendaric and mick, they have hit the nail right on the head. The only addition i would like to add is slow everything down.
Below i have added the steps that me and and another went through to help overcome his target panic

The following suggestions might be of some help or it might not.

His style of drawing was to raise the bow arm and at the same time draw.Everything occurred almost instantaneously without a pause. Raising the bow arm,drawing the string, aiming, loosing and then he dropped the bow arm.

So we first shot 3 or 4 metres in front of a large blank target.
We lowered the poundage in the bow by a good 10 to 15 pound (so that he could hold the draw).
WE slowed the shooting process down considerably.

At first i made him raise the bow arm and draw back, anchor and hold fast.
He was not permitted to shoot the bow at all. After 10 seconds at anchor he would let down. This got him used to drawing, breathing, anchoring aiming and not to anticipate(which is most important)
We carried out this action a couple of hundered times till he felt confident with it. At first he did this with his eyes closed so that he would accustom himself to how it felt and develop form. By doing it slowly everything became measured and calculated. Later on with the same process but eyes open.

Now standing in front of a target butt with no target, he shot at the butt. He was not allowed to raise the bow and loose the under 10 seconds. Once at full draw he could not loose under the count of 5. i counted out aloud as so did he.

That process just shooting at a butt and no target was done for a couple hundred shots. Then I made him imagine a target on the butt and shoot it. That was done for a few hundred shots. Once he was comfortable with this, we placed a large target on the butt and he shot it. Then we placed a smaller target on the butt.

We then moved out to 10 metres and repeated the above process.
We then kept moving out at 5 metre increments repeating the process.

The whole process was by no means a quick fix. It took approximately 3 months and shooting every sat and Sunday. One thing I will say is that you need a friend to be watching over you to do the timing. If you are the archer what you think is 5 seconds is in reality 1 second. So you need the friend to count for you the time. Eventually the timing and the slowing down of the shot will come natural.

My 2 cents worth.


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