Martin archery.
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Martin archery.
I was quite disturbed not long ago to hear that Martin archery had been placed in receivership. Latest news is that an investment company has taken over the reins and they will have a 2014 range produced next year.Great to see that a famous american bow company has been resurrected.
nil illigitimo in desperandum carborundum
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Re: Martin archery.
I hope they can get things going in the right direction.
Jeff
Jeff
Re: Martin archery.
Worst customer service I've ever had for a purchase over $500, archery or otherwise.
Not surprised to hear.
Not surprised to hear.
Common sense; so rare it should be considered a superpower.
Re: Martin archery.
what happened andyD?
was it martin themselves or a distributor?
I never bought a new one but I've had quite a few used ones. there has been some talk on here about "factory" bows. martins aren't any more of a factory bow than any laminated bow. the lams are hand laid, put in a mould, baked, and then the riser is hand shaped and the bow is filleted by a bowyer.
Unlike Ragim, samick, Bear who machine their risers. bear invented a machine like a giant key cutter that copies the master riser and makes 10 at a time!
nothing really wrong with that either.
was it martin themselves or a distributor?
I never bought a new one but I've had quite a few used ones. there has been some talk on here about "factory" bows. martins aren't any more of a factory bow than any laminated bow. the lams are hand laid, put in a mould, baked, and then the riser is hand shaped and the bow is filleted by a bowyer.
Unlike Ragim, samick, Bear who machine their risers. bear invented a machine like a giant key cutter that copies the master riser and makes 10 at a time!
nothing really wrong with that either.
"So long as the new moon returns in heaven a bent, beautiful bow, so long will the fascination of archery keep hold in the hearts of men" The Witchery of Archery, Maurice Thompson
Re: Martin archery.
Sorry Bob, no offence to you mate but I wont mourn their passing.
It's not the method of manufacture, but that Martin is a corporate entity that prevents me from sending it any money. I'll take an artisan like you Bob, LB, Flatliner, Jeff and many others working on his own in his shed for the love of it, over corporate profits any day.
For me, corporations have no business defiling our beautiful chosen lifestyle of trad bowhunting. The fact that the best of it is artisan and/or DIY based is part of what attracted me to it in the first place.
I'm not always able to, but if I can deny organised capitalism a dollar, I will. (yes, I deliberately used "organised" to conflate the robber barons refuge of Corporate Capitalism with organised crime, because that's what it is)
Now the vulture capitalists who try to conceal their true intent with the use of weasel words like "investment" are involved in Martin...wow, expect a improvement in quality soon if that's the case! It'll be shut down, all creditors and employees will be stiffed (except banks of course, the poster boys of greed must be paid!) and any remaining asserts will be sold at a tidy profit for the vultures... at the expense of those employed by Martin who will be thrown on the scrap heap with nothing! That's the way vulture capitalists roll.
Just my opinion of course, take it or leave it...
It's not the method of manufacture, but that Martin is a corporate entity that prevents me from sending it any money. I'll take an artisan like you Bob, LB, Flatliner, Jeff and many others working on his own in his shed for the love of it, over corporate profits any day.
For me, corporations have no business defiling our beautiful chosen lifestyle of trad bowhunting. The fact that the best of it is artisan and/or DIY based is part of what attracted me to it in the first place.
I'm not always able to, but if I can deny organised capitalism a dollar, I will. (yes, I deliberately used "organised" to conflate the robber barons refuge of Corporate Capitalism with organised crime, because that's what it is)
Now the vulture capitalists who try to conceal their true intent with the use of weasel words like "investment" are involved in Martin...wow, expect a improvement in quality soon if that's the case! It'll be shut down, all creditors and employees will be stiffed (except banks of course, the poster boys of greed must be paid!) and any remaining asserts will be sold at a tidy profit for the vultures... at the expense of those employed by Martin who will be thrown on the scrap heap with nothing! That's the way vulture capitalists roll.
Just my opinion of course, take it or leave it...
Last edited by Nephew on Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Lately, if life were treating me any better, I'd be suspicious of it's motives!
Re: Martin archery.
Tell us what you REALLY think Nephew
Cheers
Rob Browne
Its OK to make a mistake,
Just try not to make the same one twice.........
Rob Browne
Its OK to make a mistake,
Just try not to make the same one twice.........
- Chase N. Nocks
- Posts: 1463
- Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:33 am
- Location: Brisbane, Australia
Re: Martin archery.
.....and The Abbott looked upon these philosophies and saw that they were good ....Nephew wrote:Sorry Bob, no offence to you mate but I wont mourn their passing.
It's not the method of manufacture, but that Martin is a corporate entity that prevents me from sending it any money. I'll take an artisan like you Bob, LB, Flatliner, Jeff and many others working on his own in his shed for the love of it, over corporate profits any day.
For me, corporations have no business defiling our beautiful chosen lifestyle of trad bowhunting. The fact that the best of it is artisan and/or DIY based is part of what attracted me to it in the first place.
I'm not always able to, but if I can deny organised capitalism a dollar, I will. (yes, I deliberately used "organised" to conflate the robber barons refuge of Corporate Capitalism with organised crime, because that's what it is)
Now the vulture capitalists who try to conceal their true intent with the use of weasel words like "investment" are involved in Martin...wow, expect a improvement in quality soon if that's the case! It'll be shut down, all creditors and employees will be stiffed (except banks of course, the poster boys of greed must be paid!) and any remaining asserts will be sold at a tidy profit for the vultures... at the expense of those employed by Martin who will be thrown on the scrap heap with nothing! That's the way vulture capitalists roll.
Just my opinion of course, take it or leave it...
Of course I don't have a problem purchasing from corporations if they have the (1) right ethic and offer (2) quality products at a (3) reasonable price.
Bear once had these 3 things going for them. No longer I am afraid.
Good luck to Martin if they can make those three things part of their philosophy and practice as they have (along with Damon Howatt) given archery some of the best and classic bows for many years.
Cheers
Troy
I am an Archer. I am not a traditional archer, bowhunter, compound shooter or target archer.....I am an Archer
"Shooting the Stickbow"
....enforced by the "whistling grey-goose wing."
"The Witchery of Archery"
"Shooting the Stickbow"
....enforced by the "whistling grey-goose wing."
"The Witchery of Archery"
Re: Martin archery.
Onya Troy!Chase N. Nocks wrote:
.....and The Abbott looked upon these philosophies and saw that they were good ....
Cheers
Troy
Ethical Corporation? Now, there's an oxymoron with all the credibility of "Transparent Government"!
I'd love to find a corporation that fits those criteria mate, but I'd love to find a unicorn, too!
Remember Google's start up philosophy? "Do No Evil"? Nice idea but it went the way I expected, now I avoid using Google simply because they're behaviour has become so offensive. I accept your premise, but can provide no examples of such corporations.
Lately, if life were treating me any better, I'd be suspicious of it's motives!
- Chase N. Nocks
- Posts: 1463
- Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:33 am
- Location: Brisbane, Australia
Re: Martin archery.
Apple!Nephew wrote:Onya Troy!Chase N. Nocks wrote:
.....and The Abbott looked upon these philosophies and saw that they were good ....
Cheers
Troy
Ethical Corporation? Now, there's an oxymoron with all the credibility of "Transparent Government"!
I'd love to find a corporation that fits those criteria mate, but I'd love to find a unicorn, too!
Remember Google's start up philosophy? "Do No Evil"? Nice idea but it went the way I expected, now I avoid using Google simply because they're behaviour has become so offensive. I accept your premise, but can provide no examples of such corporations.
Oh wait a minute, I remember a story about a serpent and an Apple. Scratch that one.
I am an Archer. I am not a traditional archer, bowhunter, compound shooter or target archer.....I am an Archer
"Shooting the Stickbow"
....enforced by the "whistling grey-goose wing."
"The Witchery of Archery"
"Shooting the Stickbow"
....enforced by the "whistling grey-goose wing."
"The Witchery of Archery"
Re: Martin archery.
Hi Fanto,
numerous attempts to get a simple answer regarding one of their bows. (basically a fastflight string sawed through the limb nock)
Basically Nada - and their aussie distributor was no better (they told me to go to Martin)
numerous attempts to get a simple answer regarding one of their bows. (basically a fastflight string sawed through the limb nock)
Basically Nada - and their aussie distributor was no better (they told me to go to Martin)
Common sense; so rare it should be considered a superpower.
Re: Martin archery.
Gail Martin first shot a bow in 1937. His love of archery was interrupted by 3 tours of the European theatre in WW2. When he returned from WW2 he joined the Blue Mountain Archers Club in which he was a member until the day he died. 66 years. When he incorporated his small family business that manufactured wooden arrows and strings in 1951, he became the corporation's President, a position he held until the day he died. 62 years. In 1976 the corporation bought Damon-Howatt when it was going under, keeping their workshop and skill set alive. They provided bowyer apprenticeships for numerous young craftsman over the last 37 years. Gail Martin sat in senior positions in the Pope and Young Club, Boone and Crocket Club and the AMO board.
I dare say he's done more for archery and bowhunting in the modern era than I or most folks will do for our own selfish benefit in our own lifetimes. To suggest he's villainous because he incorporated his family business and kept it family run till the day he died is not worthy of sensible discussion. If you don't incorporate your business in the USA you are simply seriously handicapping your business and your family.
The day he died (only a couple of months ago) was a loss for lovers of archery everywhere. Unfortunately you can only imagine with the business now taken over by an investment firm it probably spells the end of their trad line as they are not very profitable.
Jim
I dare say he's done more for archery and bowhunting in the modern era than I or most folks will do for our own selfish benefit in our own lifetimes. To suggest he's villainous because he incorporated his family business and kept it family run till the day he died is not worthy of sensible discussion. If you don't incorporate your business in the USA you are simply seriously handicapping your business and your family.
The day he died (only a couple of months ago) was a loss for lovers of archery everywhere. Unfortunately you can only imagine with the business now taken over by an investment firm it probably spells the end of their trad line as they are not very profitable.
Jim
"Structural Integrity of the entire arrow system is THE most important factor in terminal arrow performance. When structural integrity fails nothing else about your arrow's design matters."
-Doc Ashby
-Doc Ashby
Re: Martin archery.
andyd
that will happen. how old was it and was it FF rated?
its easy to tell the martin FF rated bows. they have a 2or 3mm thick black phenolic wedge on the limb tip.
i had FF saw through my old Mamba tips. I told the shop i bought the string from that it happened, just for their information. i also pointed out that a secondhand martin on the shelf had non FF tips and a FF string, and would fail. they didnt listed and last time i went in the bow was without string and the nocks sawed through, with superglue in the cracks. it can happen really fast.
as for the nay-sayers about martin, they have made some very good bows and especially the used FF rated models are about the best bow you can get for $300 bucks as far as i can tell.
that will happen. how old was it and was it FF rated?
its easy to tell the martin FF rated bows. they have a 2or 3mm thick black phenolic wedge on the limb tip.
i had FF saw through my old Mamba tips. I told the shop i bought the string from that it happened, just for their information. i also pointed out that a secondhand martin on the shelf had non FF tips and a FF string, and would fail. they didnt listed and last time i went in the bow was without string and the nocks sawed through, with superglue in the cracks. it can happen really fast.
as for the nay-sayers about martin, they have made some very good bows and especially the used FF rated models are about the best bow you can get for $300 bucks as far as i can tell.
"So long as the new moon returns in heaven a bent, beautiful bow, so long will the fascination of archery keep hold in the hearts of men" The Witchery of Archery, Maurice Thompson
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Re: Martin archery.
At the end of the day the greater range of choices is good.
A few mates that have Martin longbows love them.
Hard to check on whether companies or people are "evil/bad"....irrelevant. I am more worried about not harming others and leading as good/honest a life. I prefer to deal with others who are upright. I dislike how some organisations conduct themselves. I choose not to deal with them wherever possible.
If service becomes an issue then market forces will result in failure.
One of the reasons trad bits and pieces are readily available might actually be because a number of folk can get gear from a range of places. Anything decreasing this is not a great thing. Some of the larger trad manufacturers are probably the bread and butter accounts for component manufacturers as well as the smaller trad specialist suppliers.
I have run family businesses, a great number of businesses in Oz are family businesses and a great number of those are incorporated. Not all incorporated bodies are evil/bad. Probably as many bad corporations as solicitors, pest controllers, car salesmen, plumbers, builders, reporters and shock jocks.
From the sounds of it much to admire with the recently departed Gail Martin. I own a really nice Martin Compound. I rate it better than many others. At the end of the day they made some great gear with probably a few lemons. The good stuff was really exceptional and highly underrated for mine.
Kevin
A few mates that have Martin longbows love them.
Hard to check on whether companies or people are "evil/bad"....irrelevant. I am more worried about not harming others and leading as good/honest a life. I prefer to deal with others who are upright. I dislike how some organisations conduct themselves. I choose not to deal with them wherever possible.
If service becomes an issue then market forces will result in failure.
One of the reasons trad bits and pieces are readily available might actually be because a number of folk can get gear from a range of places. Anything decreasing this is not a great thing. Some of the larger trad manufacturers are probably the bread and butter accounts for component manufacturers as well as the smaller trad specialist suppliers.
I have run family businesses, a great number of businesses in Oz are family businesses and a great number of those are incorporated. Not all incorporated bodies are evil/bad. Probably as many bad corporations as solicitors, pest controllers, car salesmen, plumbers, builders, reporters and shock jocks.
From the sounds of it much to admire with the recently departed Gail Martin. I own a really nice Martin Compound. I rate it better than many others. At the end of the day they made some great gear with probably a few lemons. The good stuff was really exceptional and highly underrated for mine.
Kevin
never complain....you did not have to wake up....every day is an extra bonus and costs nothing.
Re: Martin archery.
I offer no comments on Gail Martin, I didn't know him, never met him and only have publicity to judge from. I made no personal comments at all.
My comments were on the corrosive nature capitalism, beyond the cottage industry level, has on any decent, good, healthy human activity.
I see no place for it in my bowhunting life and hope I can convince one or two others of the same.
Just my opinion, not a prescription for others unless they choose so, but one I try very hard to live by, and with a certain pride in myself for doing so.
Sorry, but to me commercialisation and corporatist policies just grease the wheels of the predatory oppression machine we have seen mowing through society for thirty years now. I see the fundamentalists attempting to turn a once decent but recently debased society into a captive market to be exploited by the ruthless, greedy and narcissistic and communities with good citizens into consumers / economic units who's only value lies in their spending power. I believe this needs to be pointed out loud and clear at every opportunity. But perhaps that's a discussion for another thread.
My comments were on the corrosive nature capitalism, beyond the cottage industry level, has on any decent, good, healthy human activity.
I see no place for it in my bowhunting life and hope I can convince one or two others of the same.
Just my opinion, not a prescription for others unless they choose so, but one I try very hard to live by, and with a certain pride in myself for doing so.
Sorry, but to me commercialisation and corporatist policies just grease the wheels of the predatory oppression machine we have seen mowing through society for thirty years now. I see the fundamentalists attempting to turn a once decent but recently debased society into a captive market to be exploited by the ruthless, greedy and narcissistic and communities with good citizens into consumers / economic units who's only value lies in their spending power. I believe this needs to be pointed out loud and clear at every opportunity. But perhaps that's a discussion for another thread.
Lately, if life were treating me any better, I'd be suspicious of it's motives!
Re: Martin archery.
Evening.
Have you saeen the film yet?
As I said last time ....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c13q2wYZr_0Nephew wrote:.... Sorry, but to me commercialisation and corporatist policies ...
Have you saeen the film yet?
Grahame.
Shoot a Selfbow, embrace Wood Arrows, discover Vintage, be a Trendsetter.
"Unfortunately, the equating of simplicity with truth doesn't often work in real life. It doesn't often work in science, either." Dr Len Fisher.
Shoot a Selfbow, embrace Wood Arrows, discover Vintage, be a Trendsetter.
"Unfortunately, the equating of simplicity with truth doesn't often work in real life. It doesn't often work in science, either." Dr Len Fisher.
Re: Martin archery.
I'm not exactly a hippy, but I agree with you about some of the problems caused by overgrown corporations and their "greedy"ways. like Coles and Woolworths. what a mob of mongrels.Nephew wrote:Onya Troy!Chase N. Nocks wrote:
.....and The Abbott looked upon these philosophies and saw that they were good ....
Cheers
Troy
Ethical Corporation? Now, there's an oxymoron with all the credibility of "Transparent Government"!
I'd love to find a corporation that fits those criteria mate, but I'd love to find a unicorn, too!
Remember Google's start up philosophy? "Do No Evil"? Nice idea but it went the way I expected, now I avoid using Google simply because they're behaviour has become so offensive. I accept your premise, but can provide no examples of such corporations.
I would not like to think that anyone considers Martin archery to be even remotely comparable to the likes of those corporations, that would be quite an unfair judgement in my book.
cheers
"So long as the new moon returns in heaven a bent, beautiful bow, so long will the fascination of archery keep hold in the hearts of men" The Witchery of Archery, Maurice Thompson
Re: Martin archery.
Nephew, at about the very moment a private business becomes profitable enough for you to make a living off it in the US, if you don't incorporate you are paying higher taxes and have none of the legal protections offered to corporations in the US for no benefit. If all these fine Aussie bowyers were living in the US and doing enough trade they would incorporate or lose out. I daresay they would do exactly what Martin had done and kept all the shares in the family. You can have a family business that is a 'corporation'. That doesn't mean there are CEO's with golden parachutes and faceless shareholders with only profits in mind. There are obviously a many great concerns surrounding corporate "rights" and motivations, but I think you are confusing large, public corporations with the legal reality that is conducting business in the US.Nephew wrote:It's not the method of manufacture, but that Martin is a corporate entity that prevents me from sending it any money. I'll take an artisan like you Bob, LB, Flatliner, Jeff and many others working on his own in his shed for the love of it, over corporate profits any day.
Incidentally in some countries (like Finland and Norway?) Credit Unions and Working Co-ops are incorporated entities, making them corporations and offering them all the same protections that incorporated 'for profit' business' are in those countries.
Sorry mate, I'm in a bit of a cranky mood today. I don't mean to be writing like I'm looking for an argument. These are all just comments on a website and I'm sure if we were sitting around a campfire this would all feel a lot more good-natured than it reads on a cold computer screen
Jim
"Structural Integrity of the entire arrow system is THE most important factor in terminal arrow performance. When structural integrity fails nothing else about your arrow's design matters."
-Doc Ashby
-Doc Ashby
Re: Martin archery.
Don't apologise, Jim. You were never rude nor did you make it personal, you just made your points with conviction, that's all. I'm never offended by the exchange of ideas matey, and find it at it's best when those ideas and opinions challenge mine. Wouldn't be much of a debate if we politely agreed on all points, now, would it?
I get a bit strident too mate, I see the victims of economic/market fundamentalism blamed for their unfair disadvantage nearly every day.( as if they had any say in policy formation/ application!) by the fortunate few who's privilege is just as undeserved as is the penury of the deliberately created underclass. I get a little frustrated with that kind of talk , but have to keep it to myself at work. I was having a bit of a vent.
Hi Grahame, no mate, haven't seen it yet,something about Warren Beatty repels me. Will try to find it at the video store and let you know what I thought.
I get a bit strident too mate, I see the victims of economic/market fundamentalism blamed for their unfair disadvantage nearly every day.( as if they had any say in policy formation/ application!) by the fortunate few who's privilege is just as undeserved as is the penury of the deliberately created underclass. I get a little frustrated with that kind of talk , but have to keep it to myself at work. I was having a bit of a vent.
Hi Grahame, no mate, haven't seen it yet,something about Warren Beatty repels me. Will try to find it at the video store and let you know what I thought.
Lately, if life were treating me any better, I'd be suspicious of it's motives!
Re: Martin archery.
Have to endorse your comments Jim Gail Martin was a good man, did huge amount of good for archery and ran a great company for many years. IMO.
nil illigitimo in desperandum carborundum
razorbows.com
razorbows.com
Re: Martin archery.
just noticed on american eBay, few bows from the Martin family private collection, like a 1991 Super Diablo, a Dreamcatcher and a rare prototype take down. like the last one a lot.
Last edited by bigbob on Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
nil illigitimo in desperandum carborundum
razorbows.com
razorbows.com
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Re: Martin archery.
In terms of quality of Martin bows I have a 35yr old TD Martin recurve thatis still a beautiful bow to look at and shoot; wish i could get some new limbs for it in 45# (don't know what model it is) and I also have 2 Martin Jaguar recurves which were only $300 and they are very good functional bows; not beautiful but they are certainly functional with no issues experianced.
I don't use FF strings.
For anyone in the know about Martin Bows the recurve thats 35 odd years old has a grey alloy of some sort riser and there is a wood insert in it with a deer burnt/etched into the wood.
The limbs are boly on and thjey are aligned by two steel balls/bearings.
I would love to know what model it is and I will themm try and get some new limbs.
I should posta pic I guess that would help too.
Cheers
Ian
I don't use FF strings.
For anyone in the know about Martin Bows the recurve thats 35 odd years old has a grey alloy of some sort riser and there is a wood insert in it with a deer burnt/etched into the wood.
The limbs are boly on and thjey are aligned by two steel balls/bearings.
I would love to know what model it is and I will themm try and get some new limbs.
I should posta pic I guess that would help too.
Cheers
Ian