Surely it must be cruel and unethical to eat meat...

[robmoore]

Some vegetarians and vegans believe that they are less cruel and more ethical than "us".
Are they really?

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/pro ... sm/4660498

Bob

[perry]

I work with a Vegan , he's lost 23 Kilo's since he turned Vegan and says he never feels weighed down like he did when he ate a more modern procesed Diet. He's cool with those that don't follow the Vegan Diet and is well aware that Humans are natural omnivors. He is enjoying his newfound vitality and is definetly a rare breed amoungst Vegans.

When you think about it an awefull lot of the tasty stuff I like with my Meat comes from plants, Chilli, Curries, Pepper, Mustard, Sweet Potato, Beetroot - the list goes on ! We eat a lot of Vegan Meals and while they are Healthy, Tasty and Filling, something about a Medium Rare Steak gets my taste buds going a whole lot more

I can not see how the huge majority of People, Vegan, Vegetarian or whatever who rely on buying food from the Supermarket can claim any Moral or Ethical high ground. My Wife and I are slowly learning to grow more and more of our Food, I've even had concessions from Her about bring Game Meat into the House which is something coming from a Woman who dry retched years ago when I was cooking a Rabbit.

regards Jacko

[rodlonq]

I like meat

[jcm]

Why is it cruel and unethical to eat meat ? Is it not cruel nd unethical to eat the vegetable as the vegetable "feels pain" when taken from the soil or plucked from the vine ?
I eat meat - lamb,beef, pork,fish and the odd the Tofu cube .Not a lover of the chicken meat .
Eat a balance from each of the food groups. Not too much. Balance. Yin and Yang on the plate.
Regards
John

[robmoore]

Is it possible some stopped reading Archer's article before getting to his punchline?

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/pro ... sm/4660498

That's what I'm really asking for; just accept the fact that in order for us to survive, other animals are going to die. It has been the way of life in ecosystems long before humans were on the planet. We can't change that, we can't stop death out there.
The Garden of Eden actually is a myth, sorry.
Professor Mike Archer

Bob

[GrahameA]

Morning.

Is it possible some stopped reading Archer's article before getting to his punchline?

Yes.

[Stickbow Hunter]

The Garden of Eden actually is a myth, sorry.

I have to disagree with the Professor there.

Jeff

[discord]

There's more to eating ethically than animal welfare.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmen ... etarianism

[Boris]

Aside from the humble pig, fish and most feathered species, are the rest not all by products of grass eating animals, hell if they were not made of meat why would you bother eating them. Oh and by the way you cant beat a nice bit of pork crackle or grilled fish, or even roast chook......... Yum, Yum salivating just writing this

[Fraser]

All of my kids have been through a phase were they preference their veges to the their meat, but they have all grown out of it, and will know quit happily chew on a t-bone. Just a shame that vegetarians and vegans don't grow out of the same over emotional child like phase.

Fraser

[Jim]

Some vegetarians and vegans believe that they are less cruel and more ethical than "us".
Are they really?

Certainly they are less cruel, but they are still guilty of their own cruelties, as the author points out. As far as any ethical arguments go, I have looked, but found nothing particularly convincing for any particular course of action in this matter. Vegans default to the "if I don't hurt anything I'm not doing anything wrong', but that ignores the natural life/death cycle of nature and the unavoidable deaths, injuries and morally questionable impositions we place on vast quantities of individuals and populations of life that are not quite as big and cuddly as disney characters.

Personally, I think the meat hunter and ethical eater (like discord points out) to be the most admirable, at least they have the blood that supports their life on their own hands. But even then, that is only because they are a minority. If everyone who lived in an urban environment made the ethical decision to only eat what they could grow and kill themselves, there'd be widespread starvation and ecological destruction. So for the time being I say F^$% it. Do what you want as long you're not being wilfully cruel to animals.

[Aeden]

That is a wonderful article, thank you for posting. I really feel this way towards the kind of vegans that don't think it's right to harm an animal under any circumstances (like PETA etc.), that they are being unnatural and putting themselves outside the cycles of nature, I just get the feeling they don't understand how beautiful and intricate the system is, and that creatures experiencing pain is such a minor issue in the grand cycle (not that I mean to say it's not best for a human to kill cleanly as possible). That's why we humans say prayers before eating; it's an expression of gratitude for the life that was taken for you to eat. Of course that means plants as well as animals.

[kerrille]

more myths busted...http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/artic ... -good.html

.......http://theconversation.com/ordering-the ... hands-4659



...........nev.....

[robmoore]

Professor Mike Archer: "That's what I'm really asking for; just accept the fact that in order for us to survive, other animals are going to die. It has been the way of life in ecosystems long before humans were on the planet. We can't change that, we can't stop death out there."

After using Professor Mike Archer's article to start this thread, here are some thoughts about meat and the deaths of animals from another two prominent individuals...

Fred Bear:
“Isn't the hunter's bullet or arrow more humane than death by fang or claw where feasting is often begun before the animal is dead? This is nature's cruel way with herd reduction by predators.
Perhaps only a vegetarian should challenge hunters, one who does not wear leather shoes or fur. Cows and other domestic animals have beautiful eyes, too, and I am sure that they do not appreciate their ignoble deaths in the slaughter house. Yet most people eat steak and lamb chops. To the housewife a piece of meat wrapped neatly in plastic has no more emotional effect than a bunch of carrots. But let someone say he is going hunting and her heart bleeds with sympathy for the game.”

Professor Tim Flannery:
“People who killed their own meat developed understanding, courage and compassion for life fundamental to human decency - values "those of us who receive our meat in plastic trays have little opportunity to achieve".
The link between morality and meat-eating occurred to him in the late 1970s when he watched a farmer in western Queensland shoot and then slit the throat of a steer in order to get some steaks for a team of palaeontologists.
"Its end was, I suspect, significantly less painful and traumatic than the slaughterhouse-bound majority, for the creature went from calm grazing to the stillness of death in a few seconds, avoiding the round-up, transportation by road and queuing before the slaughterer at an abattoir."

(Flannery made it clear that he was not complaining about abbattoirs but was expressing recognition of the worthwhile ethical and moral values of those who humanely killed their own meat.)

Bob

[kerry]

i have lots of time for vegan /vegitarians. they eat no meat = all the more for me