Oops. Not a good look

[looseplucker]

Bearing in mind the Admin might wish us to avoid controversial comment, I post this for the interest of members of the site. It also has a survey in it which I encourage you to reflect on and do:

http://www.macleayargus.com.au/story/12 ... m/?cs=2452

[Roadie]

Alleged, Innocent until proven otherwise. Bush fires taken a back seat. Cheers Roadie.

[looseplucker]

No need to lecture me on the law Roadie - innocent till proven guilty yes, but not a good look - and GC honchos should be entirely above suspicion. It might be a set up with blokes falsely identifying themselves, but there is the issue of a GC vehicle. Unless that was faked. But then we have the gut shot goat. Seems an awful lot of work for a conspiracy by greenies to besmirch hunters. And if they wanted to do a stunt to stop hunting in the parks then why poach on private property?

[Nephew]

Yes I have to agree, John. When it comes to capitalism, advertising, politics, and in this case Public Relations, facts are not important. Perception of events is what counts, and Joe Public will not percieve this in a favourable light I'm afraid. Opponents of the G.C., and hunting in general will have a field day with this and we can expect media releases and Op/Ed columns very soon cementing these allegations as fact in public opinion, regardless of what actually happened.
Politically these blokes are playing in the big league now and have to conduct themselves in a manner that is above reproach, or be very thorough indeed about covering the scent of mistakes, to avoid giving away free kicks like this.
Perhaps O'Farrell could point them towards more professional Media Advisors? Surely he, of all people, would know the "best" ( read as: most ruthless, mercenary and amoral ) spin doctors!

[looseplucker]

My point exactly - and we cannot do the head in the sand approach that has served hunting organisations sooooo well in the past. This appears to me to have some meat to it. One person named has denied being there. Identity will be an issue in the investigation - interesting that it has not hit the mainstream media (MSM) yet. Correction - it is now in the SMH....

But I am going to really go out on a limb here - I reckon the whole deal for hunting in the parks and the way it was done in NSW was exceptionally bad regulatory policy. It was a political fix done for political reasons - and if anything goes wrong - and it will because things that are badly thought out are never well implemented, and a member of the public gets hurt then all hunters with bow or rifle are going to wear it.

[Roadie]

No lecture John, just saying what I think. Cheers Roadie.

[perry]

The moment the Greenie's , Polititians and the ABC get together you gotta start asking Questions ? Divide and Conquer Folks - it's the Anti's greatest Weapon

Here's a link across to Bowhunters Group with a few FACTS reported by the Game Council !

http://www.bowhunting-forum.com/showthr ... aim!/page2

regards Jacko

[looseplucker]

Perry

I've seen the other side too from something sent out and it is a very murky plot indeed!

This doesnt change my view that the whole hunting in parks issue has been exceptionally badly handled and it will only reverberate on the law abiding etc when something goes wrong.

[rmcpb]

I actually agree that the hunting legislation was badly set up and for the wrong reason. O'Farrel needed a vote from the Hunters and Fishers so opens the national parks regardless of all the ill feeling toward hunters this will generate. Almost in the same week he needs a vote from the Greens so "tightens" gun laws to restrict ammunition sales because, as we all know, gun owners always buy bullets for unlicenced criminals

He is playing very loose and fast with the hunting/gun laws which should not be traded for a quick vote but why should that stop him, afterall he is just a pollie.

[Nephew]

I'm sorry Perry I don't mean to offend but I have to challenge your assertion that those are the facts. Niether you nor I know if those are the facts, we weren't there. Unless there is filmed evidence it's just someones version of events, and these days even filmed evidence can be dodgy and has to be assessed with at least a little scepticism. That was my point before, unless you eyewitness an event yourself you only have other peoples spin on it.
I think it's high time we understood that just because another person or group doesn't see a topic from our point of view doesn't make them sinister, evil or an enemy, it just means they disagree. That's democracy! It's messy and confronting, but we must acknowledge that these are people with a sincere and passionate concern who are only excercising the democratic right to oppose, they just happen to be a little misguided (from our perspective). The G.C. are just another political organisation/lobby group and they are not above putting spin on any given situation. I'll take thier version, and the other sides, with a grain of salt until it is decided in court.

BTW, why do people seem to be suspicious of the A.B.C.? It's the most credible source of info in any media as far as I can see, and it's the only broadcaster I watch/listen to or browse online, with the occasional foray into SBS country. I trust ANY commercial channels info about as much as I'd trust a fox to guard chooks for me. After all, they are capitalist organisations, so therefore tainted with commercial/self interest above all else, especially truth.

[Chase N. Nocks]

I actually agree that the hunting legislation was badly set up and for the wrong reason. O'Farrel needed a vote from the Hunters and Fishers so opens the national parks regardless of all the ill feeling toward hunters this will generate. Almost in the same week he needs a vote from the Greens so "tightens" gun laws to restrict ammunition sales because, as we all know, gun owners always buy bullets for unlicenced criminals

He is playing very loose and fast with the hunting/gun laws which should not be traded for a quick vote but why should that stop him, afterall he is just a pollie.

I agree with this and what John said previously. AND when something does go wrong who is it going to reflect on.

Personally I am in favour of hunter access to public land. As for hunting in National Parks I am not so sure personally and certainly I am against any rush job to make it happen. I think that the experiment with the State Forests could have been extended a bit longer.

The public have an expectation of National Parks recieving the highest levels of protection. Frankly the idea of N.P.'s being opened up to the bush bashing 4WD faternity as being suggested by Newman in QLD makes me cringe.

Cheers
Troy

[Stickbow Hunter]

Personally I am in favour of hunter access to public land. As for hunting in National Parks I am not so sure personally

Hunting in National Parks seems to have worked very successfully for decades in Victoria I believe.

Frankly the idea of N.P.'s being opened up to the bush bashing 4WD faternity as being suggested by Newman in QLD makes me cringe.

That comment is no better than the antis attack on hunters IMO Troy.

Jeff

[wishsong]

BTW, why do people seem to be suspicious of the A.B.C.? It's the most credible source of info in any media as far as I can see, and it's the only broadcaster I watch/listen to or browse online, with the occasional foray into SBS country. I trust ANY commercial channels info about as much as I'd trust a fox to guard chooks for me. After all, they are capitalist organisations, so therefore tainted with commercial/self interest above all else, especially truth.

We must be watching and listening to two different media outlets then ...

They are so partial to leftist agenda's and ideals that it beggars belief . Not that I particularly favour any political leaning but I do require impartial media reporting for it to be acceptable , and the ABC ain't impartial , nor any more credible than any one else ... oft times when it comes to hunting/ firearms legislation they are the very worst of culprits .

I'd also suggest that in the long view , the ABC is as corrupt and so very tainted with self interest that any difference between them and their commercial counterparts are in idealogy only.

[jindydiver]

No need to lecture me on the law Roadie - innocent till proven guilty yes, but not a good look - and GC honchos should be entirely above suspicion. It might be a set up with blokes falsely identifying themselves, but there is the issue of a GC vehicle. Unless that was faked. But then we have the gut shot goat. Seems an awful lot of work for a conspiracy by greenies to besmirch hunters. And if they wanted to do a stunt to stop hunting in the parks then why poach on private property?

Or how about none of those things because they all rely on personal testimony of someone with a vested interest in stopping access to the nature park next door? No need to fake a vehicle, just say it was, no need to fake a gut shot goat, just say it was, and hand over some business cards you say came from the guys in the car and you have the whole mess tied up neatly.
All it took to wipe 20 million dollars of the super funds of mums and dads in Australia was to write a convincing letter to a news outlet, and all it takes to get momentum behind your attacks on hunting is to embellish a story with a few lies and let a hostile reporter like Heath Aston run with them.

[Chase N. Nocks]

Personally I am in favour of hunter access to public land. As for hunting in National Parks I am not so sure personally

Hunting in National Parks seems to have worked very successfully for decades in Victoria.

Frankly the idea of N.P.'s being opened up to the bush bashing 4WD faternity as being suggested by Newman in QLD makes me cringe.

That comment is no better than the greenies attack on hunters IMO Troy.

Jeff

Sorry, I should have said States that are newly adopting these policies need to tread carefully in regards to hunting. Victoria as you say have a history of hunting in N.P.'s and therefore better ingrained public acceptance.

As for the comment about the 4WD's I have to disagree with you, sorry Jeff. A hunter can enter the N.P.'s and pretty much leave nothing but footprints. Keeping these areas as pristine as possible. Even the best well behaved 4WDvers can't do that. I feel very strongly about protecting National Parks.

Cheers
Troy

[jindydiver]

I'd also suggest that in the long view , the ABC is as corrupt and so very tainted with self interest that any difference between them and their commercial counterparts are in idealogy only.

I saw a great example of this just last week. In the days following the shootings in Newtown the NRA kept quite in respect for the grief of those families and was ridiculed by the ABC corespondent from the US Lisa Millar for hiding. Just last week we saw the NRA come out with an ad calling the president a hypocrite over guns and Lisa Millar tried to revise history by claiming that the NRA have "been on the attack since shootings". Now that I know I can't trust her to tell the truth on this I know that I should not believe anything else she has to say either.
This is just one example of many I have seen in the last few weeks that show that the ABC are no better than any of the other channels, while the commercial channels seem to pander to whatever will increase viewers (or readers) in an attempt to demand more for advertising (ratings), the ABC just runs with the left wing ideology of the people it tends to hire.

[Nephew]

In regards to the ABC, sorry guys I just don't see it. To me they look like they give far too many concessions to the Right (Business reports, etc. Like we don't have enough capitalist cheerleading on tele ) in order to innoculate themselves from accusations of being Leftist. I say if your Leftist, be proudly so, bugger the capitalists if they don't like it. It does 'em good to get up thier noses occasionally, they get thier way far too often.
No, for my money the ABC is still the only reliable and credible news source in Australia.
That's ok though, you are entitled to your perspective, and I encourage you to voice it.

As for the NRA...puhlease! They are thier own worst enemy, and to use the Presidents kids like that in thier ad campaign ( and to make the spurious, and frankly ridiculous claim that President Obama is somehow a hypocrite if his kids have a security detail { It's not his decision, the S.S. control that} if Joe from West Virginia doesn't have his military style assault weapons & hundred round clips) was simply disgraceful. But, that's just one mans opinion, others will see it differently and will make thier case accordingly.
Aint (social) democracy grand?

[wishsong]

The NRA add was pathetic and lowball stuff ... but then why did the president have all those kids around him when he signed the papaerwork ... whats good for the goose ..... the NRA and Obama are as bad as each other

and as for the ABC , if you don't see their agenda ?

Don't see their absolute pandering to minority political thought ? or that ol' Maxine M was so impartial in her views that the day she left she joined the labour party ..... Mmmmmmm

well , perhaps we all have our blinkered view ...


as for them making "concessions" to the "Right" with business reports etc , i take it as a good socialist the investment markets are of no concern and of no interest to you , nor your superannuation where such funds are likely invested ..........

... nor a market report that gives small business owners a free heads up as to possible fluctuations in public spending etc , nor employees an idea that there jobs are safe because times are good , or conversely to plan accordingly because times are bad ...
the ABC' market and business reports are one of the few things I can stand ......

but my point would be more that I do not pay the ABC via my taxes to hear agenda's nor partial opinions but for an impartial reading of news and current events ...

And it is as obvious as Julia's red hair , Tony Abbots negativity and Bob Katters Akubra that they ain't impartial at all .........

[Roadie]

Isn't All this very Exciting. Time for a Cigar & a drink I think. Cheers Roadie.

[Nephew]

Wishsong, there is no right and wrong on this, nor is it a matter if being "blinkered" ( never fails, if one don't understand anothers point, just insult them instead), it's simply a matter of perspective. And from my political perspective, they pander too much to the Right.

My point on business reports is, why should a publically owned station bother with them if all the commercial channells run them religiously? See? Pointless pandering to the Right, simple as that.
I don't gamble so they are irrelevent to me.

I maintain, we pay for impartial reporting in the news, and that's exactly what we get with the ABC, notwithstanding the occasional obsequious concessions made to the capitalsts.

One point you're absolutely correct on, I am a very proud, and life-long, Socialist. Having said that, I live in a laissez faire capitalist society and daily have to make uncomfortable concessions to the majority that I disagree with. It doesn't mean I hate them, just that I disagree. The thing I love the most about democracy is this: I know my views are confronting for some, but nothing and no-one will stop me voicing my opinion, nor you voicing yours, no matter how unpopular.

[jindydiver]

My point on business reports is, why should a publically owned station bother with them if all the commercial channells run them religiously? See? Pointless pandering to the Right, simple as that.
I don't gamble so they are irrelevent to me.
:

Just as a government must be a government for all a national broadcaster must be a broadcaster for all. It cannot just ignore news because some people believe it should, as it shouldn't hammer us with a point of view just because a majority of people agree with that view.

[Nephew]

I accept that in the heat of debate, Wishsong, I can get carried away.
That's a good point, Mick, and I concede to it.

[wishsong]

Wishsong, there is no right and wrong on this, nor is it a matter if being "blinkered" ( never fails, if one don't understand anothers point, just insult them instead), it's simply a matter of perspective. And from my political perspective, they pander too much to the Right.

My point on business reports is, why should a publically owned station bother with them if all the commercial channells run them religiously? See? Pointless pandering to the Right, simple as that.
I don't gamble so they are irrelevent to me.

I maintain, we pay for impartial reporting in the news, and that's exactly what we get with the ABC, notwithstanding the occasional obsequious concessions made to the capitalsts.

One point you're absolutely correct on, I am a very proud, and life-long, Socialist. Having said that, I live in a laissez faire capitalist society and daily have to make uncomfortable concessions to the majority that I disagree with. It doesn't mean I hate them, just that I disagree. The thing I love the most about democracy is this: I know my views are confronting for some, but nothing and no-one will stop me voicing my opinion, nor you voicing yours, no matter how unpopular.

I think we all have a blinkered view , that was directed at myself as much as you ...

sorry if you felt insulted , but that was why I used the phrase "well , perhaps we all have our blinkered view "

And I didn't try , imply or suggest that myself nor anyone else is trying to stop you expressing your views [ which I find far from confronting ] , far far from it . The place would be a lesser forum for not only the lack of variety in political and social comment you offer , but your very right to speak openly on matters of import .

Not sure how you read it any other way other than my disagreeing with you ........

But anyway , I apologise if you took offence for none was intended , but I certainly stand by what I said .

[GrahameA]

Hi Craig.

... I maintain, we pay for impartial reporting in the news, and that's exactly what we get with the ABC, >>>

IMHO
Yes, for all its failings the ABC does provide impartial reporting - or as close as you are likely to get to it.

[Nephew]

No worries, Wishsong. I got it wrong, after reading your last post I can see you meant no insult.

With the other though, no mate, I wasn't being sarcastic or aiming it at you, I really was just saying "I love that we can have these kinds of discussions, lots of folk can't" I actually said it to sort of ease off a little, I was getting kind of heavy there.( and yes, I see the irony of a Socialist expressing gratitude for living in an open democracy, but I don't subscribe to totalitarian communism as practiced in the old Soviet Union. I believe in a form of social democracy that involves it's citizens in process much more than just the illusion of influence created by a vote every three years, and doesn't allow the turning of nations into captive markets to be exploited as we have seen snowball over the last 30 odd years... but I suspect this stuff is boring to others so perhaps if we want to discuss it further we should do it in P.Ms)
I re-read it and can see how it can come across that way, but it was a sincere comment. Apologies for misleading.

I'm glad you stand by what you say, I'd expect you to. It's obvious you're sincere in your opinion and I'm only too happy to read you express it and engage you in conversation about it.

It's all for the good, Bud! I was enjoying myself and hope you were too!

G'Day Grahame, Glad you agree, mate.

Oh, and Looseplucker? Deep. deep apologies for hijacking your thread!

[looseplucker]

I was enjoying it, and just to get it all back on track - Happy Australia Day:

Happy Australia Day.jpg (52.35 KiB) Viewed 3627 times

[wishsong]

Nephew ... all good !

Loose ..... your are incorrigible ... as only banjo players can be

[perry]

I'm sorry Perry I don't mean to offend but I have to challenge your assertion that those are the facts. Niether you nor I know if those are the facts, we weren't there. Unless there is filmed evidence it's just someones version of events, and these days even filmed evidence can be dodgy and has to be assessed with at least a little scepticism. That was my point before, unless you eyewitness an event yourself you only have other peoples spin on it.
I think it's high time we understood that just because another person or group doesn't see a topic from our point of view doesn't make them sinister, evil or an enemy, it just means they disagree. That's democracy! It's messy and confronting, but we must acknowledge that these are people with a sincere and passionate concern who are only excercising the democratic right to oppose, they just happen to be a little misguided (from our perspective). The G.C. are just another political organisation/lobby group and they are not above putting spin on any given situation. I'll take thier version, and the other sides, with a grain of salt until it is decided in court.

BTW, why do people seem to be suspicious of the A.B.C.? It's the most credible source of info in any media as far as I can see, and it's the only broadcaster I watch/listen to or browse online, with the occasional foray into SBS country. I trust ANY commercial channels info about as much as I'd trust a fox to guard chooks for me. After all, they are capitalist organisations, so therefore tainted with commercial/self interest above all else, especially truth.

Offended - Not at all Nephew. Sadly I am reliant on the media and Forums for Facts ???!!!! on this issue. I like as many Facts as possible but sometimes you gotta read between the lines and trust past experience's. The ABC and the News Papers presented only one side of this Story, read or heard Nada about them contacting the Game Council or Shooters Party Polies offering a right of reply let alone equal Air or Print time for a balanced report. Instead YET AGAIN they reported the Story in such a manor as to leave a very bad image of the Game Council and Hunters in the Publics mind. Now that the Game Councils side of things is flashing about the Web I also note the Silence from the Media today was deafening. The Media will only report what they decree is News or what they want us to hear. It upsets me no end.

I read as much as I could stomache on the Various online Newspaper articles that are linked to similar threads on 2 other Hunting orientated Forums and the words of Rob Brown and Rob Borsak and am well aware of the various Takes different party's will have. Even though I was not there, and can only rely on what I have read and heard I think this whole thing stinks of a Stitch Up Court or no Court

As for the ABC, they are my major News Source as without exception the Commercial Media are not credible. The qualifyer is that the ABC makes a great Song and Dance about being Fair and Impartial, and a balanced approach - Baloney - in all the Years I have been listening to the ABC only twice have I heard a Fair Balanced Interview in regards to Hunting related topics. The Presenters in the Dozens of Reports I have heard all Tainted them by allowing there Anti Hunter Personnel opinions to shine through. One impartial and balanced Story was in the Conversation Hour presented by Richard Fiedler where he interviewed a Woman who Hunted and had written a Book of Her experiences and the other in General Talkback a couple of Years ago about Gun Control and Hunting when Mif Warhurst was presenting over Summer when the regular presenters where on Leave.

The ABC may be my favourite News Source but I often turn the Radio off in Frustration.

Love the Cartoon, says it all

regards Jacko

[looseplucker]

Nephew ... all good !

Loose ..... your are incorrigible ... as only banjo players can be

One does one's best - as does Nephew.

I knew when I posted this the debate was going to be robust - as it should be. But I'm conscious, having inflamed stuff in the past, that this is actually a campfire and the ones I like the best are where there is robust debate and a laugh.

Hence the cartoon.

And Wishsong, if you think I was incorrigible here I've been having a bit of fun tonight posting it to right wing hate Facebook sites with a Happy Australia Day message and then wading in. More fun a kelpie in a paddock of rabbits and then my hippy musician friends moseyed on in and well we stopped the nastiness coming back at us. Proving that sometimes the pen, or at least the keyboard, is mightier than the sword.

In taking the p*ss, that is.

[wishsong]

ha ha ...

the right wing 'hate' facebook sites are an embarrassing display of jingoistic mob mentality ...

and of course , hateful , bigoted and racist key board commando's are the bravest of the brave ........

Dreadful stuff ... but given that they get their facts from Today Tonite and A Current Affair ... well

Mindless idiots .......