use of aluminium and carbon arrows at trad shoots

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littlejohn59

use of aluminium and carbon arrows at trad shoots

#1 Post by littlejohn59 » Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:28 pm

Not Happy Jan. I have decided to air my grievance here.. I attended a trad shoot on the weekend whereby the winner shot aluminium arrows and won the tournament. The vast majority of us shot woods If trad archers can go to the trouble of making wood arrows for a trad shoot then those shooting carbon and aluminium should still be able to participate in the shoot but not claim any prizes. I consider it not in the spirit of trad. I feel better now!

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Re: use of aluminium and carbon arrows at trad shoots

#2 Post by wishsong » Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:30 am

Little John ... wood arrows are the best arrows ... what the cool kids who sit up the back of the bus shoot from their bows eh !

However , I'd suggest that not everyone has the time nor space nor inclination nor knowledge on how to make good wood arrows .. it's a pity but in the spirit of inclusion I think other shaft materials [ I shoot alloys and carbons as well] need to be included at our shoots purely to keep the numbers up .

I know having moved back into a small house without even a garage in the inner city , that making and sealing wood arrows is just not an option for me ... the smell alone of poly would be unfair to my wife in such a small house ... I'd hope that I wouldn't be excluded from participating in this great sport because of such circumstances

Maybe two diff divisions are needed ? woods and other ?
I think in the bigger tourneys such as IFAA C'chip shoots it is important to keep woodies alive but at the local level I'd like to see options for both types of arrow material

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Re: use of aluminium and carbon arrows at trad shoots

#3 Post by Trad Bound » Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:50 am

Come on Littlejohn do you remember the shoot :wink:
As we discussed last saturday unless it is stated "woods only" we have to suck it up, it may not be in the spirit of what we prefer.But as i stated many a person comes to a shoot with what ever gear they have and I want to encourage people to jion our great sport. We saw that at Dunolly.
There are those of us who get into the spirit of Trad and there are those of us who want to win at any cost and we know who they are. I know you are a great shot and great shooting partner. At some shoots it is clear you "comes" along it is woods only ( Ah Wiseman's). At Lilydale Trad shoots we have discussed this many a time, wooden it (sorry had to play) be great for woods only or different divisions for different arrows but it just gets more complicated Recurve, Longbow, Primative, Historic, a woods division, an Alloy , a carbon and then DavidM would want a pink feathers division. :oops:
I don't blame you for airing you have good cause to but mate you took the prize for the person who got into the trad spirt most (Littlejohn aka Ian is in the Dunolly photos and his image fits the name).
See you at Lilydale with our woods, you still have not put up that tent yet maybe Lilydale could be the the raising of the tent.
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Re: use of aluminium and carbon arrows at trad shoots

#4 Post by bigbob » Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:05 am

How about 2 divisions ala ABA as in trad with woods , split fingers, straight laid [ no reflex/deflex] and then modern with r/d, 3 under and alloys allowed.This format groups like with like and makes a more level playing field.
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Re: use of aluminium and carbon arrows at trad shoots

#5 Post by clinton miller » Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:14 am

what if you rock up with a selfbow, with rawhide string, boo arrows and bone points? would you have cause to protest against the use of bows with synth lams, synth string, synth finish, synth glue, synth finish on wood dowel arrows with synth arrow nocks and steel points that you bought? who has the advantages now?
you can't have a class for every oppinion of what trad is.

are wood arrows so inconsistent in performance that there is a distinct disadvantage when shooting against aluminium and carbon arrows?
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Re: use of aluminium and carbon arrows at trad shoots

#6 Post by clinton miller » Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:20 am

littlejohn59 wrote: If trad archers can go to the trouble of making wood arrows for a trad shoot then those shooting carbon and aluminium should still be able to participate in the shoot but not claim any prizes.
if primitive archers can go to the trouble of making all their equipment for a trad shoot then those shooting wood arrows should still be able to participate in the shoot but not claim any prizes.

just a different point of view for you.
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Re: use of aluminium and carbon arrows at trad shoots

#7 Post by kerrille » Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:36 am

being at that trad shoot and shooting in primitive class with homemade boo arras i agree with little john to a certain aspect of the game ,shooting knitting needles is not in the spirit of the game but i think the commeradery and fun of the weekend outweighs all ,just remember there are trophy hunters out there because they have nothing else in their lives and it makes them feel good and i shot my best game round ever ,so i gotta be happy with that .
i hunt animals because they have legs and can run away ................plants dont

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Re: use of aluminium and carbon arrows at trad shoots

#8 Post by bigbob » Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:06 pm

clinton miller wrote:what if you rock up with a selfbow, with rawhide string, boo arrows and bone points? would you have cause to protest against the use of bows with synth lams, synth string, synth finish, synth glue, synth finish on wood dowel arrows with synth arrow nocks and steel points that you bought? who has the advantages now?
you can't have a class for every oppinion of what trad is.

are wood arrows so inconsistent in performance that there is a distinct disadvantage when shooting against aluminium and carbon arrows?
Clinton with ABA [not trad shoots] self bows, traditional and self bows each have their own section.I take your point re varying issues comparing oranges and apples but if you take that to extremes then why not compete against compounds with their accompanying mechanical advantage? I think a modern reflex/deflex glass bow has some advantage over a light self bow hence should be in a different section.But these are my thoughts only and not intended to try and influence anyone.
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Re: use of aluminium and carbon arrows at trad shoots

#9 Post by clinton miller » Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:53 pm

can you tell i only hunt? i haven't been to a shoot before. didn't know that aba has a selfbow class. just thought i'd offer a different point of view on it.

have fun at the shoots guys..
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Re: use of aluminium and carbon arrows at trad shoots

#10 Post by chewy_baillie » Sat Aug 11, 2012 5:34 pm

Hey Little John,
I could imagine that would leave a sour taste in your mouth. Personally i shoot woods out of choice and i shoot heavy hunting arrows whenever i'm at the club. I never shoot high scores and a Target archer I am not, but im confident that i can take an animal with a heavy wood arrow inside of 20yrds. The line between Trad and modern is Fading all the time IMO, It does give you a sense of satisfaction tho when u beat another archer that is shooting a 'Modern Bow' with 'Modern Arrows' doesnt it? And a sense of pride shooting a Bow you have made yourself and arrows you made yourself!

Thats how i feel anyways.

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Re: use of aluminium and carbon arrows at trad shoots

#11 Post by DavidM » Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:53 pm

Litte John

I'm lucky in this respect, it doesn't matter what I use, as I can shoot just a crapy with all the types of arrow :mrgreen:

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Re: use of aluminium and carbon arrows at trad shoots

#12 Post by wishsong » Sat Aug 11, 2012 8:49 pm

i have done nearly all my hunting with woodies and often competed with them . I ove shooting IFAA as everyone in "longbow" is shooting woodies ... is there anything better than seeing an archer with a back quiver full of nicely made woodies , longbow in hand ... it epitomizes archery to me

but i want to see trad archery grow... grow in numbers and acceptance ... "trad" in all its forms ... and i still think the best way to get more people in the sport is leading by example and shooting the best equipment we have as well as we can ... but being exclusionary with arrow material , all of the time , isn't the way to get people involved .

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Re: use of aluminium and carbon arrows at trad shoots

#13 Post by Stickbow Hunter » Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:18 pm

chewy_baillie wrote:The line between Trad and modern is Fading all the time IMO
Extremely disappointing and rather annoying but very very true. :roll: At the rate things are deteriorating they'll be marketing Tad compounds soon. 8)

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Re: use of aluminium and carbon arrows at trad shoots

#14 Post by perry » Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:33 am

Oh No :surprised: :surprised: The doors been opened. I'll start ducking after this post :lol: :lol: You all know my views :oops:

Alluminium Arrows where introduced by Mr Easton and been in continuous use since the 1920's - pre Fibreglass Lams

Plastic Vanes where commercially available in 1948 - pre Fibreglass lams being widely available. I think Mr Bear was still developing them

Even a Mr Hill used Alluminium Arrows when they suited the task at hand

Why are Carbon Lams Ok in your Fancy High Gloss Bows but Carbons not Ok in your Arrows

10 000 years ago a Stone Arrow Head represented the state of the Art in Technology Arrow Head wise

3000 years ago the Composite Bows represented the state of the Art in technology in Bows yet Selfbows had their place

I have seen much resistence to metal handled Bows, been available and used for hundreds of years. I've seen resistence to Hinged and sleeve and socket T/D systems, again been around for hundreds of years.

I see resistence to centreshot Bows, newsflash - been here for thousands of years. I have Selfbows due to snaky grain fall outside many of the Centreshot Bow rules used in different Games developed decades ago

It was the 1970's before what represented the state of the art in technology in modern Bow and Arrow synthetic materials in Flight Shooting outdistanced what the Turks shot hundreds of years previously with Horn and Sinew Bows and specialized timber Flight Arrows, the state of the art in technology in their Day

A Compound is a Device, a different direction in Technology, other than shooting Arrows it is an all together different Beast and will never be a Traditional Bow.

ILF Bows represent the state of the art in technology today, sure they are adjustable but this is about Individual tuning options. Tell me why the hell would you adjust your Bow during a Tournament, your Bow should be tuned beforehand. So what difference does it make if you have a rule that no Bow should be adjusted in any manor through the duration of the Shoot except in the case of breakage or mishap.

A custom Bowmaker will fit and tiller a Bow to the customers requirment, you can not do this perfectly with a mass produced Bow, generaly the avarage Archer compromises in this. Take a 3 piece T/D, you can shim either limb to alter the tiller and manipulate draw weight to fine tune Arrows to a Bow, you can file one side of the string nock to correct poor string line, their are many options a knowledable Archer has to fine tuning their Bow, the same options as an ILF Bow in practice

Why do we pick and choose whats Trad Equipment , why does it seem to me that Folks want to limit Trad Archery to a snap shot in time, seems to me at present this is somewhere between the 1950's and 1970's modern material / technology wise. We accept some technology pre this era such as Primitive Equipment, but reject other technology that predates the 1950's.

I see much hypocracy trying to justify this snap shot in time mentality. It is not possible to contain Traditional Archery to a definition.

Regulation, not even peer group pressure will not force people to learn how to make decent timber Arrows or other Trad Skills if they are not inclined to do so, especially in a consumer driven society where Marketing dictates whats in and whats out. Lets face it only those inclined to learn these Skills will do so and they will do it regardless.

Every Trad Shoot I see folks shooting mis matched poorly made Arrows - the most important part of their Gear. Yet they shoot $1000 plus high Gloss example of the custom Bowmakers Art. Some even say they can't see the value in a quality set of Arrows Thankfully many are realising that a set of Custom Made matched Arrows not only look good in their Quivers but they see the improvement in their shooting as a result

I used to subscribe to Selfbows being less accurate that Modern Bows - not Now. I learned to tune my Selfbows and construct decent Timber Arrows and that practice , practice and more practice is the real Clue

What we have today evolved from what was developed those thousands of years ago. I went out and learned how to make accurate Primitive Bows and Arrows, I went out and learned how to make Bows from Modern Materials and assemble and tune Arrows from Modern Materials. I went out and learned about ILF Bows and the associated Equipment that can be used with them. Passing on existing knowledge and learning and passing on new Knowledge is whats Traditional not which Bow or what materials it's made from.

Lastly I would love to see a Shoot that instead of Archers competing for Trophy's they come along, pay their Cash, can spend days wandering shooting the coarses enjoying the company of their Comrades, perhaps some experience Coaches to help Archers improve their shooting Form, stop by a Workshop and learn from Skilled Craftsmen the myriad of Skills in Trad Archery. No Trophy's, no ego's just passing on Traditional Knowledge and enjoying good company.

In the end I just accept the Shoot Rules, don't compete because just now it does not push my buttons and try to go with the flow. I must admit I do get conflicted on days when I wish to shoot a Recurve and other equipment I did 30 years ago that is not acceptable today that was mainstream then

regards Jacko
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Re: use of aluminium and carbon arrows at trad shoots

#15 Post by dawallace45 » Sun Aug 12, 2012 2:42 pm

I practice with wood arrows , I stump shoot with wood arrows , I don't shoot competition any more so the point is moot , I hunt with alloy arrows because I find them more accurate and I consider taking every opportunity to ensure a clean kill more important than being trad

David

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Re: use of aluminium and carbon arrows at trad shoots

#16 Post by wishsong » Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:16 pm

perry wrote: Lastly I would love to see a Shoot that instead of Archers competing for Trophy's they come along, pay their Cash, can spend days wandering shooting the coarses enjoying the company of their Comrades, perhaps some experience Coaches to help Archers improve their shooting Form, stop by a Workshop and learn from Skilled Craftsmen the myriad of Skills in Trad Archery. No Trophy's, no ego's just passing on Traditional Knowledge and enjoying good company.
Sounds great ! My kinda way to spend a day !
dawallace45 wrote:I practice with wood arrows , I stump shoot with wood arrows , I don't shoot competition any more so the point is moot , I hunt with alloy arrows because I find them more accurate and I consider taking every opportunity to ensure a clean kill more important than being trad

David
I still hunt with woodies a bit but also , being time poor and living in a small house with no garage , alloys are my best option ... nothing I like better than making up some nice woodies but I rarely have the time and the wife won't have the poly smell near the house so .......... :cry:

I'd hate that any one, including me , felt excluded because of such circumstances

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Re: use of aluminium and carbon arrows at trad shoots

#17 Post by hazard » Sun Aug 12, 2012 6:01 pm

perry wrote:Oh No :surprised: :surprised: The doors been opened. I'll start ducking after this post :lol: :lol: You all know my views :oops:

Alluminium Arrows where introduced by Mr Easton and been in continuous use since the 1920's - pre Fibreglass Lams

Plastic Vanes where commercially available in 1948 - pre Fibreglass lams being widely available. I think Mr Bear was still developing them

Even a Mr Hill used Alluminium Arrows when they suited the task at hand

Why are Carbon Lams Ok in your Fancy High Gloss Bows but Carbons not Ok in your Arrows

10 000 years ago a Stone Arrow Head represented the state of the Art in Technology Arrow Head wise

3000 years ago the Composite Bows represented the state of the Art in technology in Bows yet Selfbows had their place

I have seen much resistence to metal handled Bows, been available and used for hundreds of years. I've seen resistence to Hinged and sleeve and socket T/D systems, again been around for hundreds of years.

I see resistence to centreshot Bows, newsflash - been here for thousands of years. I have Selfbows due to snaky grain fall outside many of the Centreshot Bow rules used in different Games developed decades ago

It was the 1970's before what represented the state of the art in technology in modern Bow and Arrow synthetic materials in Flight Shooting outdistanced what the Turks shot hundreds of years previously with Horn and Sinew Bows and specialized timber Flight Arrows, the state of the art in technology in their Day

A Compound is a Device, a different direction in Technology, other than shooting Arrows it is an all together different Beast and will never be a Traditional Bow.

ILF Bows represent the state of the art in technology today, sure they are adjustable but this is about Individual tuning options. Tell me why the hell would you adjust your Bow during a Tournament, your Bow should be tuned beforehand. So what difference does it make if you have a rule that no Bow should be adjusted in any manor through the duration of the Shoot except in the case of breakage or mishap.

A custom Bowmaker will fit and tiller a Bow to the customers requirment, you can not do this perfectly with a mass produced Bow, generaly the avarage Archer compromises in this. Take a 3 piece T/D, you can shim either limb to alter the tiller and manipulate draw weight to fine tune Arrows to a Bow, you can file one side of the string nock to correct poor string line, their are many options a knowledable Archer has to fine tuning their Bow, the same options as an ILF Bow in practice

Why do we pick and choose whats Trad Equipment , why does it seem to me that Folks want to limit Trad Archery to a snap shot in time, seems to me at present this is somewhere between the 1950's and 1970's modern material / technology wise. We accept some technology pre this era such as Primitive Equipment, but reject other technology that predates the 1950's.

I see much hypocracy trying to justify this snap shot in time mentality. It is not possible to contain Traditional Archery to a definition.

Regulation, not even peer group pressure will not force people to learn how to make decent timber Arrows or other Trad Skills if they are not inclined to do so, especially in a consumer driven society where Marketing dictates whats in and whats out. Lets face it only those inclined to learn these Skills will do so and they will do it regardless.

Every Trad Shoot I see folks shooting mis matched poorly made Arrows - the most important part of their Gear. Yet they shoot $1000 plus high Gloss example of the custom Bowmakers Art. Some even say they can't see the value in a quality set of Arrows Thankfully many are realising that a set of Custom Made matched Arrows not only look good in their Quivers but they see the improvement in their shooting as a result

I used to subscribe to Selfbows being less accurate that Modern Bows - not Now. I learned to tune my Selfbows and construct decent Timber Arrows and that practice , practice and more practice is the real Clue

What we have today evolved from what was developed those thousands of years ago. I went out and learned how to make accurate Primitive Bows and Arrows, I went out and learned how to make Bows from Modern Materials and assemble and tune Arrows from Modern Materials. I went out and learned about ILF Bows and the associated Equipment that can be used with them. Passing on existing knowledge and learning and passing on new Knowledge is whats Traditional not which Bow or what materials it's made from.

Lastly I would love to see a Shoot that instead of Archers competing for Trophy's they come along, pay their Cash, can spend days wandering shooting the coarses enjoying the company of their Comrades, perhaps some experience Coaches to help Archers improve their shooting Form, stop by a Workshop and learn from Skilled Craftsmen the myriad of Skills in Trad Archery. No Trophy's, no ego's just passing on Traditional Knowledge and enjoying good company.

In the end I just accept the Shoot Rules, don't compete because just now it does not push my buttons and try to go with the flow. I must admit I do get conflicted on days when I wish to shoot a Recurve and other equipment I did 30 years ago that is not acceptable today that was mainstream then

regards Jacko
Very well said Perry.

I believe from where I stand you are right on the money. There is only one point I would add that may or may not be in line with your thoughts.
I struggled with appreciating woods over Carbons for quite a while but conceded it was through more passion and appreciation of 'Trad" than stubbornness I chose to persevere with woods as I do believe practicing with woods made my accuracy with carbons just that little bit better. It may just be me and may not fit everyone.

It is still all archery and encouraging it in any form is paramount over all opinions as we are all on the same side regardless how die hard you are about 'Trad".

Hazard
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Re: use of aluminium and carbon arrows at trad shoots

#18 Post by Fanto » Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:02 pm

can't we all just shoot long thin round pointy sticks/tube things with long bendy stick jiggers (lets call them "bows") and just get along?

I really believe archery is all about whats going on inside your head, so just as long as you're not using sights its all good with me. Its nice to avoid plungers, rests and stabilisers too but it bothers me not.

I don't choose my fishing mates based on the rod they own or shun them because they use alveys when i like eggbeaters..
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Re: use of aluminium and carbon arrows at trad shoots

#19 Post by Bent Stick » Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:10 pm

I think it's pretty straight forward really, ditch the trophy's ditch the scores and just have shoots. If trophy's and classes are so important start shoots that accomodate your flavour, when your the guest; you are just that, you take it for what it is or just or suck it up and start your own with your own rules or lack of etc.

I would like to think that just gets us more shoots, but failry certain a few will just have a bigger tanty.
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Re: use of aluminium and carbon arrows at trad shoots

#20 Post by GrahameA » Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:31 am

Morning All.
littlejohn59 wrote:Not Happy Jan. I have decided to air my grievance here.. I attended a trad shoot on the weekend whereby the winner shot aluminium arrows and won the tournament. The vast majority of us shot woods If trad archers can go to the trouble of making wood arrows for a trad shoot then those shooting carbon and aluminium should still be able to participate in the shoot but not claim any prizes. I consider it not in the spirit of trad. I feel better now!
How every individual club runs its' shoot is up to the Club.

If they want to allow Aluminiums, Carbons or laser guided arrows it is their decision.

A couple of years a set of suggested rules was put together however it is up to the individual clubs (or shoot organisers) to decide what is allowed or not allowed and they should make those rulings public so people know how the shoot will be run.

The corollary of that is if people do not like (enough) the rules that a shoot is being conducted under they have the choice of not going. Clubs set the ground rules and are responsible for the outcomes. If the rules are generally unpalatable and they get a poor turn-up then they have only themselves to blame.

So if you are thinking of going to a shoot and they say Alloys are okay and you are not happy with that - don't go. The same if they say you must shoot woods and you want to shoot Carbons - then once again don't go.

The "Market Place" is a very effective tool in sorting things out - it just tends to be a bit blunt occasionally.
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Re: use of aluminium and carbon arrows at trad shoots

#21 Post by bigbob » Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:55 am

Have to agree Grahame [ :shock: :shock: :surprised: :wink: ]
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Re: use of aluminium and carbon arrows at trad shoots

#22 Post by White Hawk » Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:23 pm

... my two cents worth, in my opinion the 'traditional' in traditional archery represent a 'spirit' and 'state of mind' that we as trad archers bring to our gatherings rather than a rigid adherence to a set of rules, you want that there are plenty of avenues in archery to indulge that. In my experience at trad gatherings most important rule is that there is a spirit of good fun and inclusion rather than exclusion, mateship and a propagation of the values of sportsmanship over winning at all cost. That definition of 'Traditional' then means that the only rule that really applies at a trad shoot is have some fun with ya mates and maybe learn a thing or two like don't drink Marks Homemade Vanilla Scotch and expect a good outcome the following day or expect 'broken arrow' to go home with the same amount of arrow in his quiver as what he started the day with.... :biggrin:
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Re: use of aluminium and carbon arrows at trad shoots

#23 Post by flyne » Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:11 pm

When I was a member of dunolly ther was many times the score cards wear left in the shed and we just went for a shot and it was a blast
but as far as wood only at trad events being Abel to win trophys I dont realy care i shoot for the fun of shooting after all what good is a trophy I have couple of boxes of them in my shed from when I shoting training wheels that will probly never c the light of day agen
I shoot carbon coz I'm a time poor person and making a mached set of woods just isnt posible that and i miss allott and woods just don't last for me and if I had to make a new set for every shoot I couldn't afford it
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Re: use of aluminium and carbon arrows at trad shoots

#24 Post by hazard » Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:48 pm

White Hawk wrote:. That definition of 'Traditional' then means that the only rule that really applies at a trad shoot is have some fun with ya mates and maybe learn a thing or two like don't drink Marks Homemade Vanilla Scotch and expect a good outcome the following day or expect 'broken arrow' to go home with the same amount of arrow in his quiver as what he started the day with.... :biggrin:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

The trad community I have encountered has shown me more Heart than any other club i have attended. I really love the fact we hassle each other about the degrees of gear we use in good spirit. I really don't care about scoring, Control freaks jumping up and down about categories, Politics or even Trophies. I attend the shoot to enjoy the company of good people who are the salt of the earth with my family and truly appreciate the higher level of satisfaction no trophy can offer regardless what 'RULE" I don't comply with, because I am an archer treat all rules with all the contempt they deserve :mrgreen:

And if you don't like it you have the right to leave or don't come :mrgreen:



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Re: use of aluminium and carbon arrows at trad shoots

#25 Post by longbowinfected » Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:25 pm

I love shooting woods. I did so in competition at AA against others shooting alloys even at state and national titles. The alloys really only perform better after about 50 metres in my experience.

I do love head banging competition in AA and follow their rules. I have copped more grief over my wooden arrows not measuring up [they do] so have decided to use alloys at AA events and use woods at trad events but do not really care what the other archers use.

Trad shoots for me are great fun and have a sense of freedom. Not many folk camp at AA events sharing fire, a tipple, a feed and yarns. Not much time for yarns at an AA event. At AA events I have made a lot of friends and enjoy their company but trad shoots are different. I particularly like the mateship, the lack of officialdom. I have the opinion that between the really top trad archers that it would not matter what gear they used they would still feature in the shoot off at the end of the day.

I make woods up on my dining room table, watching TV with my family as it is far too cold to go down to my garage at night time. My wife and daughter see very little of me during daylight hours each weekend so I like to make my gear and repair my gear sitting near them. I use wax rather than paint. I use wraps rather than paint. Matched sets of woods are possible without smells and with very few tools and take no longer than alloys. Matched sets of woods can be bought from a number of guys for pretty good prices. The only thing limiting this is an individual's commitment. I see a huge amount of work by some of the family guys making great sets for the whole family of field and flu flus. I do not judge those who do not. It is great that they come and support the club having a shoot. Great to see the family fun.

I would rather see lots of folks rather than just the winner's circle at these trad shoots. I would rather people have a go with the gear they can put together than just gear purists approve of. The rules sorted out here a few years ago work really well at the HVTA and at Wisemans. Why not let people shoot with what they have but only the purists be in the hunt for gongs? simple and works for me.

If you want a gong and feel the other guy got an advantage shoot alloys or practise more. Have to say though that between 5m to thirty metres there is no difference for me.

Kevin
never complain....you did not have to wake up....every day is an extra bonus and costs nothing.

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Re: use of aluminium and carbon arrows at trad shoots

#26 Post by alaninoz » Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:01 pm

GrahameA wrote:So if you are thinking of going to a shoot and they say Alloys are okay and you are not happy with that - don't go. The same if they say you must shoot woods and you want to shoot Carbons - then once again don't go.

The "Market Place" is a very effective tool in sorting things out - it just tends to be a bit blunt occasionally.
I'm with Grahame on this one. I shoot woods out of my longbows and, when completing, would prefer to compete against others who shoot woods. That's my choice though. Others may make different choices and that's up to them.

I must admit I like the "forget the scoring and fling arrows with mates" approach too.
Alan

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Re: use of aluminium and carbon arrows at trad shoots

#27 Post by hazard » Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:04 pm

longbowinfected wrote:I love shooting woods. I did so in competition at AA against others shooting alloys even at state and national titles. The alloys really only perform better after about 50 metres in my experience.

I do love head banging competition in AA and follow their rules. I have copped more grief over my wooden arrows not measuring up [they do] so have decided to use alloys at AA events and use woods at trad events but do not really care what the other archers use.

Trad shoots for me are great fun and have a sense of freedom. Not many folk camp at AA events sharing fire, a tipple, a feed and yarns. Not much time for yarns at an AA event. At AA events I have made a lot of friends and enjoy their company but trad shoots are different. I particularly like the mateship, the lack of officialdom. I have the opinion that between the really top trad archers that it would not matter what gear they used they would still feature in the shoot off at the end of the day.

I make woods up on my dining room table, watching TV with my family as it is far too cold to go down to my garage at night time. My wife and daughter see very little of me during daylight hours each weekend so I like to make my gear and repair my gear sitting near them. I use wax rather than paint. I use wraps rather than paint. Matched sets of woods are possible without smells and with very few tools and take no longer than alloys. Matched sets of woods can be bought from a number of guys for pretty good prices. The only thing limiting this is an individual's commitment. I see a huge amount of work by some of the family guys making great sets for the whole family of field and flu flus. I do not judge those who do not. It is great that they come and support the club having a shoot. Great to see the family fun.

I would rather see lots of folks rather than just the winner's circle at these trad shoots. I would rather people have a go with the gear they can put together than just gear purists approve of. The rules sorted out here a few years ago work really well at the HVTA and at Wisemans. Why not let people shoot with what they have but only the purists be in the hunt for gongs? simple and works for me.

If you want a gong and feel the other guy got an advantage shoot alloys or practise more. Have to say though that between 5m to thirty metres there is no difference for me.

Kevin
Kev
I have shot along side of you more times than you would probably care to admit!! Even then I cant foult you, You know full I don't care for your passion for the the particular rules you go to a great efort to comply with but would only be insulted if you wouldn't share my company for all the reasons you have just stated!!! :mrgreen: The only thing that would hurt me is if you didn't agree and refused to share my company or such a minuscule thing as rules.

I like your company no matter what the bloody hell you shoot, probably because you argue better than any cantankerous old ba$tards I have ever met but I wouldn't enjoy your time if you didn't!! :mrgreen: Where would the fun be if you just agreed with me!!!! :wink:

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Re: use of aluminium and carbon arrows at trad shoots

#28 Post by asparky » Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:27 pm

Little John you out scored the alloys on the hunt round by 20 ,you out scored the alloys on the kings round by 3 ...now what you are real peaved about is that the organises didnt have another hunt round because you would have most like won it ....But it was clout..l know you dont like shooting it..so dont blame the alloy arrows for ur loss.. just practise more clout..... Next year l'll make sure that l only use woods to keep those purists happy...
Last edited by asparky on Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: use of aluminium and carbon arrows at trad shoots

#29 Post by Roadie » Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:36 pm

Well this is all very interesting. I shoot a Big Stick with a piece off "string",or hemp or linen, and wooden arrows that I have made or some one else has made for me.
At most of the Trad shoots I have attended it has always stated Wooden Shafts and 12" feather are to be used. I think this has worked well.
The Trad shoot that I am Organising in late August next year 2013, The Flyer will State Wooden Shafts and 12" of Feather, and Bare Bow Recure, so If some one turned up with an Olympic Style Recurve as long as it is Naked ( all bells and whistles removed) and they had Wooden Shafts with 12" of feather, they can shoot. I may have put the Cat in the Canary cage, But Cheers Roadie.

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Re: use of aluminium and carbon arrows at trad shoots

#30 Post by hazard » Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:52 pm

Roadie wrote:Well this is all very interesting. I shoot a Big Stick with a piece off "string",or hemp or linen, and wooden arrows that I have made or some one else has made for me.
At most of the Trad shoots I have attended it has always stated Wooden Shafts and 12" feather are to be used. I think this has worked well.
The Trad shoot that I am Organising in late August next year 2013, The Flyer will State Wooden Shafts and 12" of Feather, and Bare Bow Recure, so If some one turned up with an Olympic Style Recurve as long as it is Naked ( all bells and whistles removed) and they had Wooden Shafts with 12" of feather, they can shoot. I may have put the Cat in the Canary cage, But Cheers Roadie.
I shoot carbons mostly Roadie but I will share Single malt, will you forgive me mate? But last time I can't remember what the hell we shared beer, malt, what ever :lol: :lol: :lol:

Hazard
Politics is a game played by dishonest people to gain an unfair advantage!

Never under estimate the strength of a cornered coward.

Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.

http://www.bowmanstaxidermy.com.au
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