Victorian game legislation ???

[sambar]

Hi there after much reading and speaking to a few wildlife officers I am still confused on the bow wieght side of things. Per there legislation it says a longbow, recurve or compound has to be a minimum wieght of 22.5kg or 49.5# no where does it state at what draw length this wieght has to be reached. My problem I have a 45#@28" bear grizzly but my draw length is 30" so I should be over the 49,5# limit. And what if a short ass muppet arm bloke had a 55# bow but only could draw it too 23" and not make the 49.5# mark. My question is has anyone had any dealings with this and actually know if they test your draw length then apply that to your bow with a bow scale or what? As I think if there is nothing in the legislation they wouldn't have a leg to stand on in court if they issued an infringement.

[rossy]

Sambar, i spoke to a few DSE blokes a while ago about the this. One officers response was, " If you mad enough the chase deer with a bend stick, then i can only assume you now what you doing......we don't carry bloody bow scales in our kit".

I have been hunting deer with a 49#@ 28" long bow, and never had a problem.
Just have your license on you, and be polite . would be my advice.

D!ckie

[excelpoint]

Sambar. A compound has to have a PEAK weight of no less then 49.5# where is a compound has to have a DRAW weight of no less the 49.5#.

So for trad gear the bow weight has to be a minimum of 49.5# at what ever your draw is.

Please don't just heed to what some DSE officer said because unless you have it in writing from him when it comes to the crunch you will be in the wrong.

[dartonian]

Rossy,
I'd tend to agree with Dickie on this one. If someone did look at your bow and work out that 45lb is less than the legislated 22.5kg, it would probably be beneficial if you knew exactly what the draw weight of your bow is at your draw length to allow you to confidently explain it to them... politely.
I say "politely" as It would be no skin off their nose to allow you to explain it to a magistrate and then you would know exactly who is right... but at great cost in stress, time, effort and probably money.

In reality, the legislation in it's current wording does appear flawed, as with compounds it talks about "peak weight"... So a 50lb compound wound right down is still legal?
I doubt this legislation has been tested in court... So it is open to interpretation until a judge or magistrate makes a ruling.
Cheers,
Paul

[excelpoint]

In reality, the legislation in it's current wording does appear flawed, as with compounds it talks about "peak weight"... So a 50lb compound wound right down is still legal?
I doubt this legislation has been tested in court... So it is open to interpretation until a judge or magistrate makes a ruling.
Cheers,
Paul

Sorry mate not correct. The peak weight of the bow is measured however it is set at the time, wound in or out when scaled it will have a peak weight. If that weight is under 49.5# you are in the wrong.

On another note I have also heard of DSE officers in popular sambar areas that actually carry bow scales and know how to use them.

[dartonian]

Excelpoint...
I stand (sit actually) corrected ...
However, I still doubt any of this has been tested in court to see what a judge or magistrates opinion would be...
Rossy identified that Wildlife Officers do not carry bow scales around, so what permissible evidence could they gather to prove an offence? Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating breaking the law, just being part of the discussion.

Cheers,
Paul

[excelpoint]

Sorry you might have missed my edit to the above post where I have heard of some DSE officers in certain areas carrying scales. Also if the DSE officers BELIEVED you to be in the wrong I reckon it would be up to you to prove otherwise. I'm talking worst case so I'm sure they probably carry cameras and at the least could photograph your bow with any specs written on it and then IF you had to front court you would need to show the bow complied.

The legislation is written and is law so I reckon there is a fair chance that DSE officers would have the means to enforce that legislation if need be.

[excelpoint]

Also I don't think it would matter what the judges opinion might be if it is proven your bow is below spec then it is black and white. I really don't see any ambiguity in the way the legislation is written.

[dartonian]

On another note I have also heard of DSE officers in popular sambar areas that actually carry bow scales and know how to use them.

oops... Didn't see this bit ... i stand corrected... again... think I'll shut up now!
Cheers,
Paul

[excelpoint]

On another note I have also heard of DSE officers in popular sambar areas that actually carry bow scales and know how to use them.

oops... Didn't see this bit ... i stand corrected... again... think I'll shut up now!
Cheers,
Paul

LOL no worries mate. With the increased scrutiny we get on hunting nowadays I just don't want to see anyone unknowingly doing the wrong thing.

[sambar]

Yes I totally agree I would never intentionally break the law but from the wording it is not clear. is my bow legal? 45@ 28" but I draw to 30" I'm shore at my draw it will be over 50# but I could just lie and say my draw is greater than it is. I lust find this very stupid and would have thought that Someone with some knowledge in archery would have constructed the legislation a bit better. Plus I want to cover my ass when I step out into the bush with my gear as I don't want a fine.

[excelpoint]

Yes I totally agree I would never intentionally break the law but from the wording it is not clear. is my bow legal? 45@ 28" but I draw to 30" I'm shore at my draw it will be over 50# but I could just lie and say my draw is greater than it is. I lust find this very stupid and would have thought that Someone with some knowledge in archery would have constructed the legislation a bit better. Plus I want to cover my ass when I step out into the bush with my gear as I don't want a fine.

To me it is clear. It is at YOUR draw. With your draw and given an average of 3# per inch you would be fine. Easiest way to tell is just chuck it on the scales and measure at your draw.

[kerrille]

yep my bow is 53# at 28 so with my 27'' draw its 50#

...nev...

[excelpoint]

Ah Ha, the beauty of shooting ILF stuff. If its a bit under just wind her up a little.

[sambar]

Ok that's what I would think as well it makes sence but do you think that they would test your draw weight and scale your bow I would be impressed if they did. I'm all for having rules and was brought up very stricked in that regard as my farther was a fisherys And wildlife officer for 26 years so I just want to cover my ass as it would be a little imbaresing getting booked by one of my old mans ex work mates LOL.

[excelpoint]

If they thought you were doing something wrong then there is a good chance they might. Easier just to make sure you are all legal.

[hazard]

Honesty is the best policy I always say

[sambar]

cheers for all the input guys im going to put my bow on the scales and write my draw weight at my draw on the bow and make shore it is indeed over the required 49.5#. And as you said explaining it politely will be the key if they do not understand and if that doesn't work and they still think im breaking the law and issue me an infringement. I think my farther after being in the job for 26 years buy my side in the court room knowing the system quite well and the way the legislation is written i would be proven to be in the write anyway LOL.

[greybeard]

I checked the following site to obtain more information regarding hunting deer with a bow in Victoria; unfortunately the PDF files could not be found/accessed.

http://www.dse.vic.gov.au/recreation-an ... ulations#1

As stated in this topic there is a minimum draw weight requirement to meet the current legislation.

Is there a proficiency test one has to pass before gaining the relevant license?

Poor arrow placement would probably on par with an under powered bow.

Daryl.

[dmm]

I shot a round with a young chap a while back, who told me he had been stopped by DSE officers whilst pursuing deer in Victoria. He said they had a scales and used it. He thought himself lucky, as he had been considering letting the bow out a little, but hadn't gotten around to it, and feels he would have been caught out if he did.

Personally I'd take the view, that if you can demonstrate that your bow is 50# or more, at your draw length, then you have done everything necessary to comply with the law.

[excelpoint]

No proficiecny test needded just a license fee. The relevant info is on page 31 of the 2011 Vic Hunters guide.

[looseplucker]

Speaking not as a lawyer, and having not looked at the legislation I think if your bow had the specs of 45#@28" and you drew over that and were over the minimum you would be fine. The spec is just that - 45#@28". Thusly if you draw 28" or under your bow would be beneath the minimum and you could be in trouble. If you were pinged and elected to defend the matter you would need to turn up to court and demonstrate to the beak that you drew over 28" - you'd probably need to have a bowyer or some such turn up and give expert evidence as well, to be sure.

Having said that a magistrate could not, in my view, be satisfied beyond a reasonable doubt that a bow marked 45#@28" is under the minimum - given what we know about bows drawn over the spec.

But as Dickie says, be polite - in my experience in the law I have known an awful lot of people end up getting pinged for "failing the attitude test". At the end of the day they all helped pay my mortgage, so who's bitchin'?