Bull Bars Under Threat

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dawallace45
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Bull Bars Under Threat

#1 Post by dawallace45 » Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:05 pm

Check this out , the idiots are at it again

http://www.aaaa.com.au/4wd/news.asp?id=49

David

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greybeard
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Re: Bull Bars Under Threat

#2 Post by greybeard » Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:55 pm

"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken.
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perry
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Re: Bull Bars Under Threat

#3 Post by perry » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:14 pm

Startling how inanimate objects are always responsible for the ills of society in some folks eye's. You can not protect people from themselves, each other or the enviroment they live in- there is an element of personnel responsibility. Sh$t happens, all you can do is foster a responsible attitude and promote being aware of ones surroundings. Perhaps these do badders view such things in modern society as similar to the threat posed by 20ft Goanna's or 500 pound Sabre toothed cats in prehistoric times. Life is not safe, risks are part of it. In the end it's fatal, accept it

It's not as simple as an outright ban, restricting them to Country area's or what ever as there is consequences to each decision.

regards Jacko
"To my deep morticication my father once said to me, 'You care for nothing but shooting, dogs and rat catching, and you will be a disgrace to yourself and all your family.' "

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jonow
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Re: Bull Bars Under Threat

#4 Post by jonow » Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:11 pm

Do they take into account the fact that many families in australia are at serious risk each day if they don't have a bull bar.
Be interesting to see how it pans out this time around....
"Like arrows in the hand of a warrior, So are the children of one's youth. Happy is the man who has his quiver full of them" Psalm 127

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rmcpb
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Re: Bull Bars Under Threat

#5 Post by rmcpb » Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:14 am

Is this really about getting rid of bull bars or just regulating what is already happening. Its getting harder to find a bullbar that points forward, most wrap around the front of the vehicle these days. From an interview I heard with a NT pollie and one of the safety blokes it seems they are looking at formalising what we are already doing, not banning bullbars, that headline just sell papers.
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Roadie
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Re: Bull Bars Under Threat

#6 Post by Roadie » Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:39 am

This has been going on for years, we can no longer have the old 5 post Bull bar, as they are illegal in most states,the trouble is the newer cars with all there AIR BAGS, the Bull Bars are a Hinderence to the optmium effect of the AIR BAGS. I personnally know what I prefer, on my 4WD's I all ways had forward facing Bull Bars to take my winch and driving lights, and so If I hit anything the car would go over it. The trouble with the newer Bull Bars facing back is that if you hit anything it comes up onto the Bonnet and possibly thru the front window inside with you. I have just sold my 4WD and have just brought a Falcon Tray top UTE, my problem now is do I fit a Nudge Bar to take my Driving Lights, or have a Forward Facing Bull Bar made for the UTE, and compramise the EFFECTS of the AIR BAGS. Time will tell. Cheers Roadie.

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woodie
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Re: Bull Bars Under Threat

#7 Post by woodie » Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:34 pm

I got am email from 4wdAction today about this if you want to have a look here is the link:

http://takeaction.4wdaction.com.au

woodie
may your arrows fly straight and true and your limbs return.

trash one
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Re: Bull Bars Under Threat

#8 Post by trash one » Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:58 pm

I would like to have one of these clowns who want to ban bullbars travel from the Isa to Brisbane with me in the troopy it's not uncommon to take out a dozon roos on the trip. I'm sure common sense is a thing of the past.
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Re: Bull Bars Under Threat

#9 Post by Stevo » Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:50 pm

Common sence isnt a thing of the past, but honnest, intelegent politicians that have travled and experienced life, is.

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woodie
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Re: Bull Bars Under Threat

#10 Post by woodie » Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:08 pm

I agree Stevo, polies only travel by plane or car for a short distance. Over xmass/new year my family and I traveled 1100km each way to see relos and sore lots of roos, luckly for us they where not on the road. My brother hits at least 1 roo a week in his job as a copper out west, he loves his bullbar.
woodie
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Chase N. Nocks
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Re: Bull Bars Under Threat

#11 Post by Chase N. Nocks » Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:23 pm

I agree with quite a lot that has been said here especially by those that regularly have to travel our outback roads but lets just have a look at the flip side of the lack of common sense argument...

Honestly I see this and I think just as big as clown as the suburban tricked out hoon and get'm of the road. Just saying I can't give automatic blanket support in defence of bullbars.
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I am an Archer. I am not a traditional archer, bowhunter, compound shooter or target archer.....I am an Archer
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....enforced by the "whistling grey-goose wing."
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dawallace45
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Re: Bull Bars Under Threat

#12 Post by dawallace45 » Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:00 am

When I used to live at Clermont I had over 30 bad roo strikes in 10 years , that is the hard solid hits and not counting the glancing blows but there wasn't any real problem for me because I had a bull bar , before that I used to live at Beachmere on the coast and just outside Brisbane , my car didn't have a bull bar and I averaged one good strike a week , and used to buy my headlights in bulk , after the first repair I just din't bother to get the panels repaired just replaced the headlights , it was either that or only ever have the use of the vehicle every third week , it wasn't as if I ever drove fast [ I drive like Grand Ma Duck ] it was just that there were so many of them and the bush so thick .

Now I'm back on the coast again and three years ago we bought a new Musso , first off we couldn't get a bullbar to fit then we sort of forgot about it , my wife reckoned we didn't need it as neither of us used to drive after dark and we would drive at dawn or dusk maybe once a year , well over the next three years we had close call after close call but about 5 months ago I hit a roo , a big one and it hit me dead centre , I wasn't going fast , was probably less than 60 km when we hit but it did over $9000 worth of damage , was off the road for about 3 months with having to wait for accessor and then the insurance company to make up it's mind if it was going to write off or not then the wait for parts , the actual repair was the quickest bit , the thing that annoys the most is that if I'd of had a bullbar fitted then there wouldn't have been any damage , the insurance company actually suggested that we replace the bumper bar with a bull bar , they said there was about $100 difference between the two and if we wanted to pay the difference they would be quite happy to go along with it . Needless to say we now have a bull bar

Now I live about 40 minutes south of Gladstone and I see dead roos every time I drive any where , the panel beater reckoned that most roo strikes happened with people driving to and from work in full day light with in 10 km of the city , hell I once had my bonnet caved in from a roo jumping on it driving through the main industrial area at south pine road Strathpine , so it's not just some thing that happens in the outback , a mate of mine lives at Victoria Point in Brisbane , in one three month period he hit 3 roos while driving to work , the third had him off the road for two and a half months , he now takes the bus and he reckons that the bus averages one roo strike a month

Some time ago I talked to a Pathologist about bullbar strikes on people and is it really worse that of a car with a normal bumper bar and she said yes and no , then went on to explain that at less than 20 km a hour there was a chance to survive either but over that the chances of surviving either were slim indeed but the corpse would possibly look slightly better if hit with out a bull bar ,

She then gave the example of a holden ute , one fitted with a bull bar and one with out , she reckoned that the one with out would hit a normal sized person about knee high and they would then slam into the windscreen and die from a broken neck or fractured spine , either way your stuffed , at the same speed and vehicle but with bull bar the person would most likely be hit higher and have a broken hip and depending on their build and height either go under the car and be run over and crushed to death or go over the bar and hit the bonnet or windscreen and suffer a broken neck or spine , either way your stuffed but the holden ute would possibly only need a new bonnet and windscreen

Now if your hit with a large 4x4 like a Land-cruiser with out a bull bar then you will most probably be hit in the hip or pelvis area and suffer extensive breakage and then unless your extremely tall go under the vehicle and be crushed to death, if your hit with the same vehicle with a bullbar then you will most probably be hit in the hip or pelvis area and suffer extensive breakage and then go under the vehicle and be crushed to death , either way your stuffed but the driver in the Landcruiser will probably be able to continue on with out major repairs

One thing she did mention was the damage done by rod holders mounted on a bull bar , she reckoned that they tend to disembowel people when they hit , she also said your still dead either way but it looks worse when there is intestines across the road , she mentioned a accident victim that she had examined that hit a ford utility with bullbar and rod holders mounted , victim had two broken legs but had been effectively disembowelled but it was the broken neck from hitting and going through the windscreen that killed him and if it hadn't the throat lacerations from the windscreen would have caused him to bleed out with in minutes any way , and if it hadn't he wouldn't have survived the extensive head trauma , she also said the bullbar in that case was extremely low and made of clear plastic and wouldn't have made any differences to his survival either way

All the stuff she mentioned pretty much matched up with what I'd seen on the tow trucks years before any way

David

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Chase N. Nocks
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Re: Bull Bars Under Threat

#13 Post by Chase N. Nocks » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:46 am

Like I said in the main I support bull bars but that does not mean that there is not a wanker element that could not be eliminated.

David, most of what you just said is basically what I have, over the years, concluded using common sense where I lack your first hand experience. I think that the latest attack is MOSTLY a beatup and not much more.

I would be interested in coronial information relating to the speeds you mentioned but think that what you have reported is pretty accurate but I would also be interested in sub-20kph speed injuries.
I am an Archer. I am not a traditional archer, bowhunter, compound shooter or target archer.....I am an Archer
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Re: Bull Bars Under Threat

#14 Post by dawallace45 » Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:00 am

There is always a wanker element in pretty much every facet of modern life , hell I personally think that going back to stone age times there most certainly would have been a element that felt the need to have a bigger club than others and I really don't think they can be eliminated with out making life impossible for the rest of us

The Pathologist I talked to had come into the Gunshop my mate managed [ 15 + years ago ] and was after different sorts of .22 rimfire and centre fire ammunition as she was doing some sort of research on small calibre wounds , mate suggested that she talk to me as when I'd spent a few years as a roo shooter and was interested in bullet performance and had been keeping notes for some years

The conversation got onto bull bar damage to pedestrians as the papers were having another slow news day and were having a beat up on it , I got the impression that the subject of impact speed and deaths is a hot one amongst Pathologists and agreement won't come any time soon ,

She reckoned that while they can generalize they can't really say with 100% certainty what will happen in any given situation and pathologists aren't immune to their own emotional prejudice , she generalized using her own experience but also said that some people are harder to kill than others for no good reason and some times the angle of the body at impact makes a difference ,

I once saw a drunk stagger directly into the path of a ford falcon sedan , he was hit from the back and the car was doing about 60 km per hour , drunk went over the bonnet hit the windscreen flipped over , took out one of the roof bars and hit the ground behind , drunk then got up and insisted he was fine and walked home , I knew the drunk guy personally and tried to convince him to stay for a ambulance , the driver stayed for the police and gave a statement and I gave a statement as a witness and also gave the police his address , they went around to check on him but he told them to bugger off as he had to get some sleep as he had to work the next day , I went around to check on him the next day and he had a problem , seems he had got out of bed that morning and his ankle had give way , it was broken , I took him to the hospital and they set his ankle and checked him over and other than that he was fine

Pathologist reckoned that while they study accidents to try and gather more information on it all they can only generalize and even the hard data has too many variables to be 100% correct

She was a very interesting person to talk to and I enjoyed our conversation

Another thing I do remember her saying was that a lot of the official data on high and low speed impact was collected using crash test dummies and while they will give you a basic idea of what will happen then oft times bare no real resemblance to real life situations and many pathologists disagree with them

David

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muntries
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Re: Bull Bars Under Threat

#15 Post by muntries » Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:58 pm

I don't mind bullbars IF you're in a situation that requires them such as regular outback and regional travel or you live in areas with lots of roos etc. But I cannot see the need for a bull bar on the ole X-Trail etc if you're taking young Timmy tot to childcare and back, this is just fashion and has no real use whatsover and if a pedestrian gets hit by a car with one of these at 60km it's lights out. I've been in a ute on an old forestry track that had a bullbar when we hit a roo, it certainly helped us I reckon but my work car now is a ute and I work in the city and I don't see the need to have one anymore despite my commute between Ballarat & Melbourne. It's a tricky area for sure and it's not as clear cut at the UK ban on bullbars.

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perry
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Re: Bull Bars Under Threat

#16 Post by perry » Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:04 pm

The heart of this matter is that the anti's ,be it anti bullbar, anti gun, anti hunting, anti what ever have a time honoured tactic that pro people hardly ever seem to use and fewer recognise. The Anti's spread misinformation through an eager media who whip up hysteria, then divide and conquor and before you know it you've settled for the thin edge of the wedge instead of an outright ban ???????????? Sound familiar.!!!!!!

regards Jacko
"To my deep morticication my father once said to me, 'You care for nothing but shooting, dogs and rat catching, and you will be a disgrace to yourself and all your family.' "

- Charles Darwin

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Re: Bull Bars Under Threat

#17 Post by jindydiver » Sun Feb 06, 2011 7:01 am

muntries wrote:I don't mind bullbars IF you're in a situation that requires them such as regular outback and regional travel or you live in areas with lots of roos etc.
How regular, how regional, and who decides??? And what happens when those people who only get out a couple of times a year want to travel, do they just have to suck it up, or maybe there will be a whole new industry of un/installing bullbars at some imaginary line where someone deems they don't need it any more??

Canberra is a city, nothing outback or regional about it, and within the city over 1000 people hit roos hard enough they need a tow truck, and a few people every year are injured severely or die after encounters with roos.
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dawallace45
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Re: Bull Bars Under Threat

#18 Post by dawallace45 » Sun Feb 06, 2011 8:01 am

A mate of mine hit a wallaby with is Falcon ute a few years back , he was between Brisbane and Logan City , early morning , a leafy area but still densely populated and not a area generally thought of by most people as a area to be aware of roos or wallabies , although he found out later they get a lot of roo and wallaby strikes in the area , the strike was only a glancing blow but the air-bag deployed and he lost control and left the road and hit a tree , he suffered spinal injuries and now can't work and suffers chronic pain , to add insult to injury the insurance feller seemed to think the air bag wouldn't have gone off if a bull bar had been fitted and he wouldn't have lost control

After my roo strike the insurance actually suggested I get a bull bar

David

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