ABA who's a member?

[huddo0312]

G'day people

Don't get on much any more, but a conversation the other night got me thinking. I was asking a cattleman about the possibility of access to his property on the Cape for a future hunt. First up he says as I'm not a member of ABA I have a mark against me because I'm not covered by insurance. I accepted that because I know the ABA and SSAA have made a big push in recent years to get there members to buy public liability insurance as a means for convincing landowners that you won't be suing them in the event of you injuring yourself, therefore giving them one less reason to deny you access to there land. I have 20 million dollars public liability insurance cover for my business to cover the public, should they get injured, at my place of business or from an accident with one of my vehicles. I also have 15 million dollars cover for my home should old Mate break his neck breaking into one of my windows and decide to sue me. Now, none of this insurance covers anything to do with me so how does buying public liability insurance cover me while on another person's property. It can surely only cover damage I cause to persons I damage while on the property. If anyone can shed any light on this I'd appreciate your input.
Another point against me, he said, is where I'm from, as I told him in the beginning of the conversation. I've lived on Cape York for 24 years. Unfortunately a few of my "neighbours" have been doing the wrong thing and as usual the rest of us have to suffer the consequences. Bummer he feels the need to lump us all in with these lowlifes. Looks like I'm getting closer each day to selling my gear and I don't know......

[dmm]

In answer to your topic, I am a member. I joined recently.
Primarily I joined for the field archery, but I did think the the insurance offer was a nice benefit.
You get Personal Accident (ie you break your leg) and Public Liability (ie you hurt someone else or damage their property).
Matt61 described it to me as "shoot something you shouldn't".

I've since learned the ABA run a hunting proficiency certificate which tests both your shooting accuracy and understanding of theory. I believe it supports an application for an R license in NSW. I think that is quite a good thing, but also very good for the perception the public may have of you.

If I was a land owner, I think I'd prefer to give access to someone who could demonstrate good standing with the ABA.

As to any discrimination you feel, I'd say that would be pretty hard to prove. Maybe don't tell him we're your from 'at the beginning' next time, or maybe you'll just find a fairer bloke on the next property

[Benny Nganabbarru]

Yep, I am.

[jindydiver]

G'day Dave

I am not a member of the ABA, but I am a member of the SSAA.

The insurance you get from the ABA, SSAA, Game Council, etc' is public liability and it covers you for damage YOU might do to other people or their property. It does not cover the insured for injury to themselves. The farm itself has to be insured for third party liability for a hunter to be covered for injuries to themselves.
The insurance is provided so that a farmer (or land manager) doesn't have to take responsibility for the actions of the hunters while they are hunting on their land.
The other side of the coin, where the farmer is concerned that he might get sued by the hunter is not covered at all by any of the insurance policies sold by any of the hunting organisations. It has to be said though that you wont find any cases in Australia where a hunter has sued a farmer for injuries that occurred through hunting on his land, so it isn't an issue for most people. There are many farmers out there who believe the hunting insurance covers them (the farmer), and people who talk this insurance up have been very quiet when it comes to wising the farmers up.

[Gringa Bows]

I'm pretty sure that if you havent got your proficiency certifcate,your not covered by ABA's insurance while your out hunting.

[huddo0312]

Thanks for the replies
David(dmm), I appreciate your input. However, while receiving cover may be a nice benefit, your information and that given you by Matt61 is quite incorrect. Public liability insurance is for the public only. It does not cover you if you "shoot something you shouldn't", only if you "shoot someone you shouldn't" I'm afraid. I have my own personal accident/ disablement cover which I'd actually be able to live off and would not provide a third of my income. Having this doesn't automatically preclude me from making a claim against the farm's public liability insurance either. I could actually claim both. Jindy, as usual, sums it up well.

There are many farmers out there who believe the hunting insurance covers them (the farmer), and people who talk this insurance up have been very quiet when it comes to wising the farmers up.

As far as proving discrimination is concerned, I don't recall mentioning I was taking legal action. Just a curious turn the conversation took.

Dave

As a footnote: I trolled around the ABA website and found, coincidentally, that the very bloke I was talking to happens to be the ABA North Queensland 'Branch Controller'.
The plot thickens.

[longbow steve]

some info off the GC site.

Public Liability Insurance & Licensing
Frequenty Asked Questions
The policy issued to Game Council NSW covers legal liability to third parties for bodily injury and/or property damage caused by an occurrence in connection with the Councils and named licence holders activities under the Game and Feral Animal Control Act 2002.

The policy covers hunting on both public and private land under G & R Licence conditions, the policy does not cover Professional Hunting or Hunting for reward of any kind.

Previously $10-million, Game Council NSW is proud to provide from 30 September 2010 a total liability amount of $20-million.

What insurance coverage is included in NSW Game Hunting Licences?

Every Standard General and Restricted NSW Game Hunting Licence (G or R-Licence) has an insurance component.

I am a G-Licence holder. If I’m hunting pigs on private property, am I covered by insurance if I accidentally damage the landowner’s property?

The G-Licence is required to hunt wild deer and game birds on private land, however licensed hunters are also insured while hunting the following species: pigs, goats, rabbits, foxes, hares, wild dogs and cats on private land.

I am a landowner. What are the benefits to my operation of a licence-holder with this type of insurance?

All G and R-Licence holders are covered for $20-million public/product liability. That means, a licensed hunter on your property is covered for Liability he/she may create whilst occupying your land, with permission. However, it does not absolve landholders from their responsibilities.

I am a G-Licence holder and a bow hunter, but I do not have a Firearms Licence. Does insurance apply to me?

Yes. All Standard G-Licence holders are covered by this insurance under the terms and conditions of the Game and Feral Animal Control Act 2002.

I am a G-Licence holder and I hunt ducks under the National Parks & Wildlife Service (NPWS) Game Bird Management Program. A G-Licence from Game Council NSW is now required by law under the NPWS Act before a permit can be obtained to participate in this program, whilst these species are not listed in the Game and Feral Animal Control Act 2002 am I still covered for the public/products liability insurance?

Yes, hunting ducks on private land is covered under the Public/Products Liability Insurance issued with your licence.



For a copy of the Certificate of Currency click here.

FURTHER INFORMATION ABOUT THIS POLICY: Please email questions to info@gamecouncil.nsw.gov.au

[bigbob]

I am a member of ABA and have been off and on for around 30 years. i have had my run in's with the administrations at times but believe the benefits far out weigh the negatives. Most people would be aware that hunting is coming under concerted attack from a lunatic fringe of society funded by conscience money from petro- chemical dollars. This minority has few members, is listed as a terrorist organisation in America for its extreme actions, but has a huge budget, wont go away and is already influencing Government decisions regarding marine parks etc. ABA, 3DAAA and AA have formed an alliance and with their combined resources along with the Game council are attempting to address public perception on our sport and hunting in general. It would be in all our interests if we belonged to one of these bodies so that they have the membership and financial clout to combat the very real threat to what we presently see as our 'right' to hunt. As individuals we amount to zero in terms of influence but as a collective have more chance of defending our 'right' to continue our healthy outdoor pursuits. Its worth a long hard consideration as its no good once anti hunting legislation wins the day.

[TazGtz]

I am a member of the ABA (in WA).

The ABA hunting insurance applies only if you are a current members AND have a Bowhunting Proficiency Certificate as thought by LB rod 55.

The main Archery bodies are currently pushing to have as many hunting members affiliated due to the projected change of laws here in WA. So +1 for BigBob's post!

As for the landowner, he is only preaching for his own parish (land and association)...

[Chase N. Nocks]

I am a member of ABA and have been off and on for around 30 years. i have had my run in's with the administrations at times but believe the benefits far out weigh the negatives.

ABA, 3DAAA and AA have formed an alliance and with their combined resources along with the Game council are attempting to address public perception on our sport and hunting in general. It would be in all our interests if we belonged to one of these bodies so that they have the membership and financial clout to combat the very real threat to what we presently see as our 'right' to hunt. As individuals we amount to zero in terms of influence but as a collective have more chance of defending our 'right' to continue our healthy outdoor pursuits. Its worth a long hard consideration as its no good once anti hunting legislation wins the day.

Pretty much agree to what Bob says here. Same as for firearms owners, I cannot believe when I meet firearms owners that are not members of SSAA.

My bug bear is that there have been years when I have belonged to three of the four organisatiions and paid the insurence levy 3 times. I should just have to provide proof of membership to the archery bodies that I am a paid up member of the SSAA and be able to join at a reduced rate. If the levy is only $5.00 or something I'm not going to quibble about it but if the levy is say $30 then there should be a cut down on the double dipping.

BTW does anyone know what this new, welcome and long overdue cooperation between the organisations entails? Can we shoot at each other's ranges and events. Just paying range fees....this would be a great step forward. Many times I have wanted to go to the AAA range to work on form.

Wouldn't it be smart to at least offer archers the option for combined memberships. With the one card you can be a member of one, two, three or even four associations. I would very much consider it. Like I said it is not uncommon for me to be a member of 3/4 anyway.

[Stickbow Hunter]

Huddo,

Have you looked into what your Home and Contents insurance covers as far as public and property liability is concerned?

Jeff

[TazGtz]

BTW does anyone know what this new, welcome and long overdue cooperation between the organisations entails? Can we shoot at each other's ranges and events. Just paying range fees....this would be a great step forward. Many times I have wanted to go to the AAA range to work on form.

Getting there: http://bowhunters.org.au/index.php?opti ... =7:general

[Chase N. Nocks]

BTW does anyone know what this new, welcome and long overdue cooperation between the organisations entails? Can we shoot at each other's ranges and events. Just paying range fees....this would be a great step forward. Many times I have wanted to go to the AAA range to work on form.

Getting there: http://bowhunters.org.au/index.php?opti ... =7:general

Good stuff mate. Hopefully will continue to bigger and better things.

Also thanks for the link.

[alaninoz]

I'm an ABA member though mostly for field archery, and +1 for what bigbob said. Politicians only care how many votes you can deliver.

[AndyD]

Yes I'm a recent member.

[bigbob]

Apparently in a new spirit of co operation between all bodies one can go to another associations meeting and shoot, not sure about procedure though. Would be good if one could have reduced fees to be a conjoint member, but its early days yet with this alliance and who knows, it may happen. At least now each body doesnt point the bone and mutter curses at the other as in times gone by. After all we are all in this because we love what we do , and some may even get a bit fanatical [ ask my wife] so '' united we stand divided we fall' to paraphrase a famous uttering.

[Stickbow Hunter]

I'm an ABA member; I love all their ,music

Not me, don't like that band much.

Jeff

[Nephew]

Nor me, but I'd watch the blond one read a 'phone book! Now, there's a woman!

[Brumbies Country]

I have to put my hand up. I'm a member of ABA, as with AlaninOz primarily for field archery. Interesting how as a body it has the ability to polarise people. I have to say in Southern NSW it's a great group of people and I really enjoy shoots within the zone; by the same token at National shoots I reckon I can see that there are elements that have some capacity to polarise.

Have to applaud Bigbobs comments here.

[Chase N. Nocks]

I have to put my hand up. I'm a member of ABA, as with AlaninOz primarily for field archery. Interesting how as a body it has the ability to polarise people. I have to say in Southern NSW it's a great group of people and I really enjoy shoots within the zone; by the same token at National shoots I reckon I can see that there are elements that have some capacity to polarise.

Have to applaud Bigbobs comments here.

Yes Simon, even I have had a bipolar viewpoint on ABA over the last 34 years. But will be joining again next year and yes mainly for field archery purposes.

[Roadie]

Yes I an also a member of ABA. I also have my BPC, and in the process of becoming an instructor at our local club so I can put others through the test to get their BPC. As we live on the border between Vic & Nsw it will help Bow Hunters get their NSW R Licence as well. As I am still learning about all this I don't have all the answers, but insurance is one of the benifits. I have also done a measurers course to act as a back up for the Club measurer for members who wish to claim their Feral animals they shoot.Yes i know people have issues with the various organizations, Bit Right or Wrong we have to start some where. Being involved in Archery sure has a steep Learning Curve. Hopefully I can pass on the right info and techique to other Archers who want to go Hunting. Cheers Roadie.

[Stickbow Hunter]

Seriously, I am not a member of and do not support ABA; many reasons for that point of view but knowing the ways of the hierarchy if I mentioned them here they would try and sue me.

Jeff

[huddo0312]

Huddo,

Have you looked into what your Home and Contents insurance covers as far as public and property liability is concerned?

Jeff

Jeff, my Home and Contents insurance covers my home and it's contents in the event of damage caused by certain events. The public liability component covers the "public" not their property. If old Mate bends his screwdriver while breaking into my window it is not covered but his neck is. Similar to the compulsary third party insurance incorperated in your registration for your car covers the person and not his property.

Dave

[longbow steve]

Hi Huddo, Your liability with regard to your home contents insurance covers property aswell.
An example- your shopping trolley full of groceries escapes you in the carpark and impacts a car. The damage is claimable against your contents insurance. Steve

[longbow steve]

As a further note, your business liability should be Broadform Liability and extend to not only personal injury but property damage arrising from your products or activities.

[huddo0312]

Hi Huddo, Your liability with regard to your home contents insurance covers property aswell.
An example- your shopping trolley full of groceries escapes you in the carpark and impacts a car. The damage is claimable against your contents insurance. Steve

Steve, I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree on that topic. I doubt very much my home and contents insurance is going to pony up for my driving a shopping trolley into someone's car sixty kilometres from my home.
However, your post as with your previous post suffer drastically from irrelevance. My topic deals with the ABA and what they offer bowhunters. Nowhere on their site does it mention any of their insurances cover public property liability, only public liability. That is cover for humans only that you may injure. They also offer a very rudimentary accident and disablement cover which covers your person should you injure yourself. What the NSW game council offers in the way of insurance not only is irrelevant to my topic but to me personally as I live in Cape York as stated above. I'm glad you're covered for damage you cause to property in NSW but this isn't the case with the ABA's cover and nowhere in this topic has anybody mentioned anything the ABA has done specifically for the sport of bowhunting, only for field archery. Perhaps they should change their name to AFAA(Australian Field Archers Assoc.) and leave the way open for someone to start a body dedicated to the sport of bowhunting.

Dave

[longbow steve]

I have 20 million dollars public liability insurance cover for my business to cover the public, should they get injured, at my place of business or from an accident with one of my vehicles. I also have 15 million dollars cover for my home should old Mate break his neck breaking into one of my windows and decide to sue me. Now, none of this insurance covers anything to do with me so how does buying public liability insurance cover me while on another person's property. It can surely only cover damage I cause to persons I damage while on the property. If anyone can shed any light on this I'd appreciate your input.

From your initial post.
I am just pointing out that your understanding of liability insurance relating to your examples may be incorrect.
http://www.bowhunters.org.au/index.php? ... ry&catid=2
This is on the ABA site

[jindydiver]

My topic deals with the ABA and what they offer bowhunters. Nowhere on their site does it mention any of their insurances cover public property liability, only public liability. That is cover for humans only that you may injure. They also offer a very rudimentary accident and disablement cover which covers your person should you injure yourself.

From the Certificate of Currency on the ABA website

Proposed Insured
Australian Bow Hunters Association Inc including the Executive, nominated affialiated Clubs (As Per
Schedule), Commitees and Sub-Comitees, Members, Voluntary Workers, Coaches and Instructors,
Temporary Members and Employees, Range Officers and Trainees and RGB's (Regognised Governing
Body) Thereof.
Occupation:
Principally Bow Hunting Association and including sporting participation and activities sanctioned by the
Australian Bow Hunters Association.
Limit of Liability
Public Liability - $20,000,000 in respect of any one claim or series of claims arising out of any one
occurence
Products Liability - $20,000,000 in respect of any one claim or series of claims arising out of any one
occurence and in the aggregate during the period of Insurance.
Advertising Liability - $20,000,000 in respect of any one claim or series of claims arising out of any one
occurence.
Property in Physical & Legal Control - $100,000
Deductible :
$1,000 Each and Every claim or series of claims in respect of property damage/bodily injury arising
out of any one occurence. All occurences of a series consequent on or attributable to one
source or original cause shall be deemed one occurence for the purpose of the application of
the excess.

Note the underlined.

You would have to see the actually policy document to know exactly what they are covering (the circumstances), but their mention of "property damage" in this document suggests that it is indeed a Third Party (personal and property) Liability policy.


The policy they offer is (my understanding) the same type of policy as is offered by the GC and the GC policy certainly covers the cow or water tank (or the like) that might get damaged through the actions of a hunters negligence.

The term "public liability" does not by the exclusion of the word "property" exclude property from coverage. This is standard that "public liability" does indeed cover not only people but their property also.
An example from the AAMI website
http://www.aami.com.au/business-insuran ... rance.aspx

Coverage for your legal liability when you are found to be legally responsible for damage or personal injury to a third party or their property

From the NRMA

Liability cover
If an incident occurs on your property’s site causing death or bodily injury to other people (or loss or damage to other people’s property) and you’re legally liable, we’ll pay up to $20 million (inclusive of GST). This includes cover for the legal costs if our lawyers are involved with the claim.

I hope this helps put your mind at ease Dave

[huddo0312]

Thank you Mick and Steve, I stand corrected. And am better informed for your efforts. Due to information that has come to light arising from an incident at a recent ABA meeting I still won't be joining the ABA. My reasons are twofold; firstly I'm just not convinced that the ABA is really doing much for bowhunting and secondly with persomalities like the gentleman I encoutered in the organisation I can't see the ABA achieving much in the future.

Dave

[Stickbow Hunter]

My reasons are twofold; firstly I'm just not convinced that the ABA is really doing much for bowhunting and secondly with persomalities like the gentleman I encoutered in the organisation I can't see the ABA achieving much in the future.

Dave, I agree with your first comment and with regards the second; they seem to specially groom such gentlemen - as you politely called him - to such roles.

Jeff