No one with half a brain would vote Greens would they ?

[Len]

I'm amazed at how many people say they are going to vote green this election but don't have any idea what the greens really stand for. If you want to take your kids fishing, hunting, camping etc don't vote greens. If you own a 4WD dont vote green or if you dont want to pay 50% tax dont vote green. In fact if you like our standard of living and the right to do what you enjoy don't vote green. I wouldn't even vote for the major party that has done a deal with them but if you feel you must than at least preference the greens last.

[roscoe]

Len,
I will not be voting for the greens. They come out of the same factory as the anti hunting, fishing & firearms group. I agree len that a vote for the greens is a vote to destroy our culture. I say factory, you don't think they are human to you? I am a conservationist myself, but not one of these lot. Well i was thinking of not sending this thread, because i didnt want to mix my archery with politics, but due to my dislike of the greens i couldnt help myself.....Roscoe

[Nephew]

I wont be voting Green, and I also discern between the conservationist and the "Greenie" and agree with those that say what's the point of conservation if humans don't get to enjoy that bush? Locking up land for no-one serves no-one! Destroying a culture (hunting, fishing, 4wd) that has existed for generations serves no-one and does real social harm!
But, Abbott in the Lodge scares the Hell out of me too! I can't imagine why anyone would trust the man with the choking of a cat! Nor do I feel the current P.M can be trusted if she saw political advantage in selling us out , although I wouldn't insult anyone, professing they had half a brain for doing so, I would just acknowledge they see things from a different perspective to me, and their opinions are just as valid as mine, although in some cases maybe not as well considered .
So, if you don't feel either choice is close to how you feel things should be done, and you don't see anyone that deserves your preferences, but nor do you feel the donkey vote is a responsible action, just what on earth are you supposed to do this election?

[Stickbow Hunter]

If you want to take your kids fishing, hunting, camping etc don't vote greens. If you own a 4WD dont vote green...

I agree len that a vote for the greens is a vote to destroy our culture.

Spot on!!!

Jeff

[Mububban]

Labor has ballsed up many things while in government. Krudd proved to be mostly talk and little action. Gillard is new and unproven but was part of that woeful administration.
Abbott is a 1950's throwback who would keep us lagging way behind in technology (I work in IT and live on the net, and have personally tasted the suckitude of wireless broadband as a primary connection) so this is a big issue for me), and I personally don't like the idea of an Australian prime mnister who would let his strong religious convictions dictate policy and ignore the will of the Australian people. Americans may demand an overtly churchy leader, but I don't think most Aussies want one.
Greens - sure they care for the environment, but I honestly don't know what credentials they have for running the government's other main concerns.

Mark me down as undecided.

My main gripe with this election is the ridiculous fear-mongering from both main sides of the "flood" of boat people. Yes border protection is a serious issue, as is cultural integration, security concerns etc, but not anywhere near as major an issue as say, the economy, health, education etc. I think someone tallied up it would take 30 years at current "flood" levels to fill the MCG, once? It's a concern, but there are far more pressing concerns.

Just anoher example of politicians treating us all like idiots. And many people swallowing what they peddle. I have no doubt that Roman senators behaved exactly the same as modern day politicians. Society may slowly change and evolve, but intrinsic human nature doesn't change.

[MattW]

There is not much you can do in the house of reps. It will be either the Libs or Labour there and personally I don't really want to vote for either of them, but at the end of the day it will be one or the other.

In the senate how ever there are many more choices, have a look at the AEC web site and check out your area to see who you can vote for, then do some digging to see what they stand for. I know it is a pain and will take a while in my area, but I will vote below the line and put the greens last. I haven't decided yet where the two major parties go, but some where near the bottom. I will probably put the shooters first as they are at least standing up for personal freedoms.

[Stickbow Hunter]

and I personally don't like the idea of an Australian prime mnister who would let his strong religious convictions dictate policy and ignore the will of the Australian people. Americans may demand an overtly churchy leader, but I don't think most Aussies want one.

Well I'm one Aussie who would.

Jeff

[Steven J]

I personally don't like the idea of an Australian prime mnister who would let his strong religious convictions dictate policy and ignore the will of the Australian people. Americans may demand an overtly churchy leader, but I don't think most Aussies want one.


My main gripe with this election is the ridiculous fear-mongering from both main sides of the "flood" of boat people.

As a Christian I would like someone to take a stand for God and ethical principles, however I see problems. If we allow a religious approach to policy making, then in our country of religious freedom when in years to come when we end up with a Muslim leader we will end with all sorts of trouble. I am not sure how to resolve this.

We know for certain that the Greens won't let religion interfere. They want religion removed from all schools, and want to remove the power that christian and other religious schools have to employ people of like mind. How crazy is it to stop religious teaching in religious schools.

I am not a big fan, however; I would sooner have it Abbots way than an atheist like Gillard running the country, who is a founder and writer of the constitution of Emily's List Australia. This is a pro-choice platform to assist women into politics with all members agreeing in abortion for non-medical reasons anywhere from week zero to 40! What about her fair go for all kids speech in her inauguration?

I fully agree that this whole election is about fear and destroying someones character rather than telling us about policy.

Back to the original post... There is no way that it will be Greens. Logging is a major industry in the Bega Valley and there is not a week that goes by that 'greenies' and our local Greens members are not causing trouble on the worksite for our forest workers.

Steve

[otis.drum]

i wont be voting greens, and never will. i enjoy freedom!

as for Christian leaders, i like the idea. with Christians come good values (obviously there are always exception to the rule).

...and please, my comments are not focused on starting a debate, nor running down non Christians, just voicing my opinion.

[Waltron]

Hey Steven J, you can always vote for the Christian democratic party... no atheists or muslims there.

[robmoore]

I'm amazed at how many people say they are going to vote green this election but don't have any idea what the greens really stand for...

Because this is so important this time, I hope our moderators and users can put up with a bit more:
The attached portion of a letter I received is worth considering. Clearly the senate is the main area we might be able to influence if we vote wisely. Obviously we are mainly interested in archery but the SSAA have put up a site specifically about the current state of affairs for this election. It is at http://www.ssaa.org.au/notice-board/201 ... on-10.html .

Let's hope there are enough voters with similar views to ours.

Regards

Bob

[Mububban]

as for Christian leaders, i like the idea. with Christians come good values (obviously there are always exception to the rule).

...and please, my comments are not focused on starting a debate, nor running down non Christians, just voicing my opinion.

Hehe, as an aetheist myself, no offense taken I'll leave that right alone so we don't go off on a tangent

I am curious though - do hunters find that there are more religious hunters than in "normal" society? Is hunting perhaps seen as a traditional activity, thus might appeal to "traditional" Christian religion?

I know the chap who teaches me bow making is a devout Christian, and he hunts. And we get along just fine

[Crowcreek2]

...two things I am sure of - Firstly our elective choices this weekend are limited and secondly there is no place for religion in politics!

JMHO.

[Mick Smith]

Yes, things aren't looking good for recreational fishing in this country at the moment. The Greens seem to think that recreational fishing isn't sustainable for some unsubstanciated reason. This the whole problem with the Greens policy, it just isn't scientifically based. The fisheries in Australia simply have to be managed in a sustainable manner. Locking up huge areas of the ocean isn't the whole answer, as it doesn't address the biggest problems presently effecting our marine life, problems such as pollution and the invasion of exotic marine creatures which have escaped from the bilges of northern hemisphere vessels.

Northern European countries have managed their fish stocks with sensible fish management principals for hundreds of years and there's absolutely no reason why we can't do the same for the next thousand years ourselves. It's actually dangerous to assume that locking up huge areas of ocean is the total answer to declining fish stocks, as it doesn't address the other issues. It may be the cheap and easy option to lock away sections of ocean, but anyone with a modacom of common sense will realise that there's more to the issue than this.

The Greens are an ultra idealistic group of people, unfortunately they don't seem to have a scrap of common sense. The Greens are also a minority group in this country and it's extremely dangerous to have them dictating terms to the majority of us. I believe the Greens plan to try to completely elliminate fishing altogether. I personally believe that it is actually a right for every Australian to make their way to their local beach or estuary in an effort to catch a fish.

Unfortunately, it's not only the Greens who plan to introduce marine parks for 30% of Australia's coastline, it's also offical (federal) ALP policy too. You can bet that they won't want to stop if/when they get the 30% either. Extreme minority groups never know when to say enough is enough.

I've been a Labour supporter for my whole adult life. I won't be voting Labour or Green in the forthcoming election.

Mick

[littlejohn]

Religion and politics!!!!!!!
I'm tempted......but I think I'll refrain from this one.

[Mick Smith]

I also believe that there's no room for religion in politics. There's no reason why good religious principles can't be used as guidelines when formulating some policies though.

Of course, we need to ensure that a complete freedom on choice of religion will continue to be a right for all Australians. However, if any religious group (or extremist sub group) if found to represent a physical danger to other Australians they should banned immediately and the proponents of the violence should be treated as harshly as possible.

Religious extremism (and not just islam either) has caused far too much grief for the human race already.

Anyway, this thread is about the immediate and real threat to recreational fishermen. It could just as easily be a threat towards hunting, so please bear this in mind when casting your vote on Saturday. Let them know we can't be pushed around!!

Mick

[aroadik]

You got me thinking Mick ! cheers Pete.

[kerrille]

i just voted so now i can have a good weekend with my son celebrating his 24th b/day

...nev...

[Steven J]

Make sure that you number below the line and put the Greens last. If you number above the line, as a larger minor party they will pick up a stack of preference votes as the seats are filled.

It takes a few more minutes to vote below the line, but the effort is worth it.

Steve

[looseplucker]

"Northern European countries have managed their fish stocks with sensible fish management principals for hundreds of years"

I strongly disagree and would use epithets of a rude nature to back it up

There is no cod fishery to speak of in European waters any more - it collapsed due to over fishing years ago -

BTW - I do not vote for anyone based on religious views - not that I do not have any, I do, but I get heartily sick of those who wear their religion as a representation that it somehow makes them more worthy of a vote. My religious views are a matter for my conscience and are therefore private and none of anyone else's business. As a corollary someone else's religious views are none of my business, and I do wish the politicians would stop trying to make it my business.

They should keep it to between themselves and God -

[Mick Smith]

There is no evidence that any fish in Australian waters is under threat from recreational fishing. No Australian fish targeted by recreational fishermen is classed as endangered.

I wasn't actually talking about commercial fishing, but recreational fishing. I should have been more distinct, I suppose. Commercial overfishing in this country and worldwide is something that certainly needs to be addressed in any modern fishing management practices.

I have little time for many of our commercial fishermen. They have been literally raping the ocean for far too long. Their primary motivation is one of greed, generally. There must be some good ones out there, but I've seen too many who obviously have had no regard for anything but themselves.

Mick

[looseplucker]

Sorry Mick - probably was a tad harsh. Will edit.

But I do agree with you on the rec fishing thing - to a point - soft plastics are accounting for more fish than in the old days - our local tackle supplier has been tracking that - but I do think that the commercial industry doth protest too much in relation to recreationals.

In my fishing areas on the South Coast of NSW there was a period where it was a commercial free for all - mass netting on the beaches, the estuaries and lagoons. It got to the point that the local boat hire place was embarrassed (Bateman's Bay) to hire his boats out -

People were netting thousands of undersize bream, blackfish etc - for cray and crab bait.

These practices were stopped and lo - the fish stocks recovered.

And provided no-one goes raving mad with it - I am in favour of Marine Parks. I fish and dive around Jervis Bay and I notice a big difference in the fish populations in the no fish and fishing allowed areas.

[Mick Smith]

Yes mate, I've heard that the soft plastics were knocking the dusky flathead populations around a bit. It's still something that can be easily managed though, with strict bag limits and sizes, etc.

I'm also in favour of marine national parks, but not for a full 30% of our coastline. I believe they're currently at around 10%, which is plenty I reckon. I have a major gripe about where many of the parks have been located too. They're right next to the best access areas. It's as though they're been placed to be in the most inconvenient places for fishermen, instead of where there's a pristine natural marine environment that needs to be protected.

Furthermore, I don't believe they will stop at marine parks for 30% of the coastline either.

From what I've seen there's next to no management of the existing marine national parks. There hasn't been any clean up of introduced species, or obvious pollution sources. In Melbourne this week, we've had good rainfall and in most of the national parks within Port Phillip Bay, there has been a constant flow of used condoms, dead cats and rats and any manner of human waste that has flowed directly out of the storm drains and straight into marine national parks. Marine parks need to be administered and managed properly, otherwise their effectiveness is largely negated, in my view.

I can't understand why, a group of people (the Greens) who have little interest in and absolutely no knowledge of the ocean and the creatures that live there, should dictate what's good for the rest of us. There has been little or no consultation with the people who do know either and that's why they're wrong on this issue.

It's no secret that the Greens want to see an end to all forms of fishing, both commerical and recreational. What they are trying to do is greatly change an Australian tradition and a way of life and we shouldn't just accept it without putting up a fight.

Mick

[muntries]

Looseplucker is correct, the cod fisheries in Europe have all but collapsed, with the new cod alternative Hake being next in line, even a sub-species of Skate in Europe is on the brink of extinction due to over fishing. I'm all for marine reserves with research showing that when properly planned they do help to improve quality and yield of some catches such as lobster. However I agree that recreational fishing isn't going to affect fish stocks that much (especially when I'm fishing ) but the reserves weren't set up with recreational fishermen in mind but the commercial fishing enterprises. One such reserve that I know of was established to cover sea grass sites which are fish spawning and fish nurseries, which makes perfect sense to manage future resources don't you think?

As for voting, I don't get that option thanks to John Howard but would probably and traditionally vote labour. Don't mind someone being religious and I don't think Abbot is being very Christian towards people seeking asylum either.

[looseplucker]

There would be no need for bag limits if everyone stuck to the principle that was written in a fishing for beginners book by someone who gave it to me for my 13th birthday: "Take only what you need for the rest of your life"

[stickshooter]

wow and I thought we had screwy politic's
good luck my friends

[hue]

the trouble with the greens, my friends is

1) twenty odd years ago, when communism died (european, that is) a lot of disaffected commos' in australia went to the democrats (Sid Spindler et al) but a huge number went to the "greens" as a loose confederation of groups. this infiltration spawned a new form of militant green force and party. the old commos' taught the new ones all the old tricks and the newies modified the idealogy to suit the green agenda. it's called "green social reform" but when you read the propaganda, it's just Marxist crap, updated
2) the green power base, following on from the above, is citycentric. the theory sounds terrific to city dwellers, who have no understanding of life in the country, nor the problems there - nor do they care. it's become very fuzzy, feel good!
and of course, the idealogy is very appealling to the young.
but during this election, no-one has interrogated Bob Brown to any great depth, the media being pro-left in sympathy!

Hue

[Mick Smith]

That's why they're called 'watermelons' .... green on the outside and red on the inside.

Mick

[Mick Smith]

You will notice too, that the ALP haven't dismissed any of the Green policies for being the utter rubbish that they are. Do you know why? Well, it's because the ALP are grooming the Greens to become an ALP/Greens coalition if the need arises in this election, I'm certain of it.

It's scary stuff indeed!! The Greens in power! I won't be voting for either party. The hunting and fishing party is looking real good at the moment.

Mick

[looseplucker]

If anyone bans hunting and fishing this is one lawyer who doesn't give a proverbial. I will still do it and damn the consequences.