I've been pirated

[Flatliner]

It's just come to my attention that my bow building business name has been high jacked.

Thought I'd Googgle Flatline bows to see how my web presence was going and there it was on the screen at last Flatline bows.com,,,,,,BUT IT'S NOT ME. Some one else a guy called Jose' Miller in the states has jumped the gun and registered the domain name a mater of weeks before mine was due to be up and running.

Not real sure where I stand, I have had the name registered as an Australian business name for four years but I don't think that has any sway when it comes to the internet.
His bows look quite good but IMO not up to par. So,,any suggestions?

Rob.

[hazard]

The dirty "BA$TARD!!!"

I have no idea whre this leads but the Blackguard will get no quarter from me!

Hazard

[Flatliner]

Hey maybe thats the go, If we mass email him telling him to change his name he might back down .

[hazard]

Hey maybe thats the go, If we mass email him telling him to change his name he might back down .

Dunno if is is considered illegal spamming but why dont you post his mail address and at least we can gently explain subtly our dissatisfaction with his theft

Hazard

[Flatliner]

No Graydon not yet thats not really my style, I sent him an email stating my case, I'll wait for a reply before I go any further unless some one has insight into how to approach this from a better angle.

Rob.

[hazard]

Fair call

Hazard

[g_r]

I fully understand youre frustation, that sucks big time!

But what if it was "an accident/coincidence"? Maybe that guy was strating a business too and chose the bow flatline without knowing you were using it too? Is that possible or did i miss something?


Good on ya for waiting for a reply! Thats gentlemen like, hats off.

Perhaps you could sue the fact youre from Australia and slightly adjust youre name? "FlatlineBowsAustralia" or "FlatlineBowsDownUnder" or something like that if all else fails...

Good luck,
Axel

[Flatliner]

My thoughts exactly Axel, but one would imagine he would have done a search first, I did.

Rob.

[hazard]

But what if it was "an accident/coincidence"? Maybe that guy was strating a business too and chose the bow flatline without knowing you were using it too? Is that possible or did i miss something?


Good on ya for waiting for a reply! Thats gentlemen like, hats off.

Well sad Axel!

I would really like to think it was an accident but if Rob has got some over seas attention its a very usefull platform to kick a business off from. Ok Australia doesn't seem to count for much over seas the quality of our workmanship goes a long way.

I must agree with giving this guy the benefit of the doubt until the reply but coincidence or not I its a rare man who would have the strength of character to change his registered name even if they were in the wrong. Normal human response is to dig your heels in and scream blue murder As Rob said if this guy had any integrity he would have done a search first

Good luck Rob

I have one of your originals built and posted before this guy pinched the name, I will advertise that loud and clear

[Bandsaw]

I had a look at the site too (at first I thought it was yours till I saw the fella's name) and it seems as though he has also copied your logo. But when it comes to web domains, it gets pretty grey when name ownership comes up. The only thing I can suggest is add an .au (if you can) to the end of your domain name.

Ben

[Flatliner]

Yeah Ben I've just been in contact with my website builder and have taged the .au version but it is the confusion over the name that really bothers me. I don't want people thinking we are the same business, it's about standards, performance and reputation and I intend to trump them all one day .

Rob.

[Bandsaw]

I know what you are going through Rob as I am a web designer and the amount of people out there that just buy up random domain names is frustrating enough. What I believe is a real crime is the fact that he has copied/stolen your logo, even if you havent trademarked it.



Ben

[longbow steve]

And he has a bow model called the "Widow Maker"
Probably a case of having the same name at the same time, probably googled and saw you emerging so thought he should get his site up and running and the domain registered???
Steve

[Nephew]

You could use this to your advantage, Rob. Anything that makes more Trad archers aware of your bows can be put to good use for ya, mate. See, in this case I reckon it's YOUR name more than the company name that counts. Anyone who has half an idea about what custom trad bows & bowyers are out there would know the name "Rob Nichols", who you are and the quality you're bows represent. That's the distinction. Maybe use his mistake (whether intended or otherwise, I 'spose we have to give him the benefit of the doubt to be fair about things but it must be said that the logo thing is mighty suspicious!)... with something like "Nichols Flatline bows" With a slogan along the lines of "For the authentic Flatline custom recurve experience, insist on a "Nichols" !" or whatever.
I know it's a bit rough and needs refining, but you get the general idea of what I'm describing, yeah?

[rodlonq]

Gidday Rob,

Bit of bad news there mate. Other than appealing to the blokes sense of decency, there is probably not much you can do about it, considering he seems to have an official business name registered in USA.

I did the same searching when I bought my domain name (paramountturf.com.au). It is my understanding that if you are going to advertise a business registered in Australia it must be via a ".com.au" site and many other countries have similar rules. I decided to buy the paramountturf.com domain as well so no one else could have it. However I did not register .net.au, and a whole host of other possible domains because of excessive cost. Also I found it really hard to find a unique business name that hasn't been used somewhere in the world.

I just had a quick look and came up with a twitter page for Paramount Turf Management which has a link to http://www.paramountscapes.com. Anyway, they are in Georgia USA so will not affect my turf business. It is different for you because every top shelf bowyer has an international market. I agree fully he has overstepped the line by ripping off your logo along with your name. It is a blatant attempt to copy your business and probably trying to give his own a head start in the market.

Hope it all works out for you mate.......... Rod

[GrahameA]

Morning All.

It's just come to my attention that my bow building business name has been high jacked.

Thought I'd Googgle Flatline bows to see how my web presence was going and there it was on the screen at last Flatline bows.com,,,,,,BUT IT'S NOT ME. Some one else a guy called Jose' Miller in the states has jumped the gun and registered the domain name a mater of weeks before mine was due to be up and running.

Not real sure where I stand, I have had the name registered as an Australian business name for four years but I don't think that has any sway when it comes to the internet.
His bows look quite good but IMO not up to par. So,,any suggestions?

Rob.

Personally I see no issue here.

You had the opportunity to register the dot.com domain name and if you had done it before the guy in the states it would be yours. Similarly, have you registered the dot.com.au domain name.

This is a repeat of the same story a million times over. People don't register things because they do not consider it important and then complain when it is.

The only way to handle this is either buy the name off him or differentiate you product by effective advertising.

Rod

It is my understanding that if you are going to advertise a business registered in Australia it must be via a ".com.au" site and many other countries have similar rules. I decided to buy the paramountturf.com domain as well so no one else could have it. However I did not register .net.au, and a whole host of other possible domains because of excessive cost. Also I found it really hard to find a unique business name that hasn't been used somewhere in the world.

In Oz if you want a dot.au domain you have to show reason why. eg You would have to be an Australian business or equivalent. Have a chat with QANTAS and what they had to do to get Jetstar which was previously owned by a hobbyist online virtual airline.

When people get serious about the value of domain names they register all that see value in.

A recent example of things:http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/24 ... e-in-china

[TazGtz]

Hi Rob,

I have seen your bows around the traps and love them. I did find the other's website, thought that is was unusual...
DO you currently have a web site?


Internet is a bowl of crabs. Nothing much you can do but to watch the domain name and see if you can buy it when it expires.
Here are some details found with a whois query:

Domain Name: FLATLINEBOWS.COM
Registrar: GODADDY.COM, LLC
Whois Server: whois.godaddy.com
Referral URL: http://registrar.godaddy.com
Name Server: NS15.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
Name Server: NS16.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
Status: clientDeleteProhibited
Status: clientRenewProhibited
Status: clientTransferProhibited
Status: clientUpdateProhibited
Updated Date: 18-jan-2012
Creation Date: 18-jan-2012
Expiration Date: 18-jan-2015

Here is a work around:
1/ Try to register other domains close to your flatline.com.au and re-direct them to your website.
ie: flatline-bows.com; flat-linebows.com, flatlinebows.net, etc... Register also the com.au for those.

2/ Then on your website make sure that the text contains numerous instances of flatline bows (keywords) so that the search engines find your website and bring to the top of the search list.

With those 2 in place you should be able to find yourself on top of the search list, ahead of your american counterpart.

Hope this helps.

[bigbob]

I actually googled 'flatline last week myself and come up with that yank imposter as well. I meant to pm you about it but having a lot on my plate at the moment it slipped my mind. It would be one thing if it was an unintended choice of name but the logo knockoff implies that this character is trying to get a free ride and wouldnt speak too well about any ethics one needs to conduct an honourable business . Hope you get some satisfaction somehow Rob.

[GrahameA]

Afternoon All.

... the logo knockoff ...

I do not see a knock off. If anything perhaps the makers of the film "Flatliners" might have a case. http://www.imdb.com/media/rm727162112/tt0099582

I see very little similarity between the US based Company Logo and the Australian logo.

[Stickbow Hunter]

I think a lot of the comments regarding this issue could be way off the mark. The fella in America might just be thinking similar things regarding Rob using his business name. Remember we are talking about two differnt countries and businesses often have the same or very similar names. Often it just happens that way and piracy has nothing to do with it.

I feel for Rob but as Grahame has correctly pointed out he should have registered the domain name just as he did his business name if he was wanting to use it.

It is obviously very disappointing for you Rob but, as has already been pointed out, there are ways around the problem and I'm sure it will all work out in the end.

Jeff

[Flatliner]

Thanks for the support and suggestions, much appreciated. Though some are as Jeff put it "off the mark". Thats not my logo, it looks a bit like the graphics used for the review done by Paul Rea for the "Austalian Bow Hunter" Mag but I think it's just a generic graphic available to any one. my logo is the one at the bottom of my posts with the Australia map as back ground ( my way of putting Australia on the international archery map).

For the last 16 months or so I though I already owned the domain name, it has been in the hands of my website builder, Who unfortunately failed to register it due to being snowed under by personal issues.

There's been no reply to my email yet, but I'm with Jeff in that I think it will all work out in the end

BTW Craig this is how you spell my last name "Nicoll" nothing common about me .

Cheers, Rob.

Rob.

[looseplucker]

I am no trademark/logo lawyer but I would have to say there is significant difference although both the Australian and American logos play on the EEG read-out depiction of a heartbeat "flatlining" - but that of itself is hardly original on either count but Rob's very cleverly incorporates his into a map of Australia.

What you do need to be cautious of is him trying to take some form of action to stop you continuing with your brand - as the Septics tried on with both Ugg Boots and Yowies - and in both cases were told to go and pi*ss up a rope. That would be unlikely and that would take a fair bit of dough, and as with banjo players it would be rare to hear "Say, isnt that the bowyer's Porsche?".

Odds on he's had the same idea and just got in first - a shame, but there is more than likely to be an amicable sorting out. I don't know your respective business models so dunno about import and export market share - and if that is unlikely to be an issue either way then probably not much to worry about.

[Outbackdad]

Welcome to the big world.
first in as they say. ( sorry to see though )

[rodlonq]

Thanks for the clarification Grahame, I knew it was something to do with .au and Aus registered businesses


The new fella's logo does look a bit like Robs mark on his bows, technically quite different, obviously not similar enough for Rob to have any real claim, however conceptually the same...... for mine.

Robs Flatline 2.jpg (90.26 KiB) Viewed 2972 times

GOOD logo crop.jpg (23.05 KiB) Viewed 2972 times

Oh well Rob, they say emulation is the highest form of praise

[looseplucker]

As I mentioned - both adopt the idea already out there from what an EEG/ECG looks like when a patient flatlines.

However, here is a query - is the "flatline" a reference to flat shooting trajectory or what will happen anything on the receiving end, so to speak?

[GrahameA]

Hi All.

What you do need to be cautious of is him trying to take some form of action to stop you continuing with your brand - as the Septics tried on with both Ugg Boots and Yowies - and in both cases were told to go and pi*ss up a rope. That would be unlikely and that would take a fair bit of dough, and as with banjo players it would be rare to hear "Say, isnt that the bowyer's Porsche?".

Probably the first question that would be asked in preparing the defence would be, "Have you registered the name"? The second would probably be, "Have you been actively using the name". And then comes question 3, "Just how much are willing to spend on this exercise"?

As far domain registration goes - when you get someone to register a domain on your behalf you own the domain name and as long as you keep up the fees it is yours.

TWO GIANT CAVEATS
Deal with a reputable company.
Do not get scammed by some other individual claiming to be willing to renew your registration on your behalf and taking the money and running.

[longbowinfected]

Put your surname in front.
Change your logo a bit with capital larger F on flat; larger capital L on line even if still run into one word. Run the capital L into the cape in Qld.
mirror image upside down map of Oz under your logo in feint. If there ever is a shyte fight all this discussion here will get picked up by simple search. Make it absolutely clear that this is you and is different and that the changes are logical transitions. Get advice about registing devices and logos and register internet stuff as per the advice previously given.
Having a signature on the logo works well.....pretty hard for someone to copy

List where you will send bows to, every country and start with X's FlatLine Bows will craft and send custom traditional bows to......that way it will be picked up much easier in search engines. For the US list every state.

Kevin

[hazard]

[quote="GrahameA"]Hi All.
And then comes question 3, "Just how much are willing to spend on this exercise"?[quote]

I reckon this should be question no.1 Lucky the Aussy dollar is looking better off for wear than the septics....for the time being

I am really vouching for the the "Every thing will work out fine" option. Rob is worth more than this joker every day of the week

Hazard

[Flatliner]

Wow you blokes seem more concerned than I am . I don't think there is a problem with the logo at all, I mean there's a map of Australia on mine, no advantage to him in that . If worst comes to worst I'll just call mine Flatline Bows Australia, one would think that would be enough differentiation.
I don't plan to spend a brass razoo on any of this I'm an Aussie not an American and as an Aussie I'm more adaptable and resouceful than I am antagonistic.

However, here is a query - is the "flatline" a reference to flat shooting trajectory or what will happen anything on the receiving end, so to speak?

It is indeed a reference to both those points and also a reference to the draw force curve of the original "Flatliner" one piece, which has a particularly flat curve. I'll scan one and post it.

This is the version of the logo I intend to put on the bows in the future.

logo_1.2.jpg (22.04 KiB) Viewed 2935 times

I think every one should lay off this (possibly innocent) guy untill proofen guilty.

Rob.

[looseplucker]

I think he'd be as laid back as you. Bowyers tend to be like that for the most part.

Probably a huge opportunity for cross promotion.....