Some knife questions please.l...

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kimall
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Some knife questions please.l...

#1 Post by kimall » Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:15 pm

OK if you guys will take a minute to answer a few questions it would help me alot thanks.. :wink:
With your knives that you take bush all the time not your safe queens...........
1.. How do you sharpen the knife at home and in the bush.?
2.. Do you think it is worth getting a good quality and or custom knife..?
3..Do you consider the Rockwell hardness before you choose a knife and if so do you prefer a hard or soft steel.?
I may come up with more but this is agreat start if people might help me here.. :wink:
Cheers KIM

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blu-dog
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Re: Some knife questions please.l...

#2 Post by blu-dog » Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:15 pm

1.. How do you sharpen the knife at home and in the bush.?
Home - wood block with 6 grades of wet and dry paper...5 strokes each side of the blade, flip to next (finer) grade of paper - finish with leather strop
Bush - small sharpening stone in pack

2.. Do you think it is worth getting a good quality and or custom knife..?
I've got rid of my mass produced knives...love the look of something handcrafted
I now have 4!

3..Do you consider the Rockwell hardness before you choose a knife and if so do you prefer a hard or soft steel.?
Yes...definitely - one of my favourite all purpose knives is HRC59
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tracker
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Re: Some knife questions please.l...

#3 Post by tracker » Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:04 pm

Matey... I use an arkansas fine stone to sharpen my knives at home and a diamond stick to keep 'em sharp in the field... i learnt the stick trick from YOU many many years ago... lol... remember our trip to wellington... lol...

I like a handmade knife from a craftsman rather than a chinese "branded" knife by preference.

Softer is better re Rockwell for me too... I like a knife that you can sharpen simply when your skinning or butchering... O1 by preference... need to keep it oiled and clean...



Mick.
"One has been a bad spectator of life if one has not also seen the hand that in a considerate fashion - kills." Nietzsche.

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jindydiver
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Re: Some knife questions please.l...

#4 Post by jindydiver » Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:29 am

1. big linisher with 400 grit belt, then polished on a strop

2. it is always worth getting the best quality steel you can afford in any knife you are using out in the field. Whether it is worth going for a custom is always a judgement you need to make for yourself. Price, steel quality, handle materials, those will all be thought about while you are browsing, but when you see the knife you really like you are going to buy it and then work backwards through all those other considerations and justify the purchase anyway. Everybody does it :)

3. I have bought a few knives without worrying too much about the hardness (see above ;) ), as long as it is above my minimum (which is 56) they will get to go on a few hunts.
In knives I make I like 59 or 60. I like being able to sharpen the knife at home and then not have to do anything to it until I get home again. If a knife can't dress and quarter at least 1 deer before I notice a reduction in keenness then it doesn't get to go hunting much.
Mick


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Rock Steady
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Re: Some knife questions please.l...

#5 Post by Rock Steady » Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:41 am

I know its boring but I use a $15 filleting knife I got from some bargain bin in an outdoors shop. I also carry a small file and a diamond stone/steel.

It is easy to sharpen, does everything I have asked of it in the bush and if I loose it I can just buy another.

My base trade would be a mechanic and I can appreciate quality hand crafted tools, but I know how I treat a knife.

Image

This knife was a mate of mines that lived and guided up north for a lot of years, he wore half the blade away but it was his favourite working knife for taking trophies for clients, when he retired he gave it to my son and it is still going strong.

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This is my current knife.

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Gene-o
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Re: Some knife questions please.l...

#6 Post by Gene-o » Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:31 am

Hi Kim, 1. At home I use an oil stone with detergent and water, in the bush I touch it up with a steel.
2. I do think a custom knife is a great idea if you get the knife that suits your best purpose.
3. I dont worry about Rockwell hardness... For me, a soft carbon steel blade that holds a good edge is all I need, the knife you made for me has had its fair share of work and is a treat to use. My two bobs worth :wink:

Geneo.

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Re: Some knife questions please.l...

#7 Post by Keith Lee » Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:31 pm

At home i use a oil stone and steel and i always shapen from the blade heel to the tip in one sweep and do the same to the other side, in the bush i touch them up with a steel. I just have cheap rubbler hardled knives that sharpen very easy.

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kimall
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Re: Some knife questions please.l...

#8 Post by kimall » Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:25 pm

Thanks guys for taking the time to answer and keep it coming for anyone else that can add something.
The reason for the questions is when I make knives for people there are always a couple of things I am in 2 minds about.I send them out sharp enough to shave but not as sharp as I can make them because I can go too a lot of trouble to get them wicked but as everyone sharpens at a bit differant angle then any micro edge I put on will be taken off anyway.So I get a base edge on there and get people to put the final edge on at home before taking the knife bush the first time as on a hardish blade many may struggle in the field to get a great edge back on if this happens.Also I got a bit cranky once at a bloke(a bit of a goose he was too) because he would not leave the rockwell hardness thing alone and said I should not make knives even to give away unless I knew the hardness level.When I pushed him a bit more on how HE sharpened his knives in the field he admitted that he is not good at sharpening so gets his mate the boner to do it. :confused: I could not get through to him that a softer blade of good quality might suit him better as he might be able to sharpen it himself.There is a def plus in a softer blade as you can sort of steel it on any hard smooth edge surface.I have even herd that you can use the top edge of the window on the car door.I agree that a good blade should be able to do a whole deer size animal without attention but not many of use get enough practice in the job so cut a bit more hair and bone than we should.I made a bit of a blade this week and was working on the handle section so the blade was wrapped it masking tap but dropped blade and it landed on its tip on the cement floor. :surprised: It took me 10 mins to get game enough to take the tape off but to my suprise only the tinnyest deforming of the tip,no bend no broken tip so I must have got the heat treat just right on that one I guess. 8) (Better to be lucky than good)..
Anyway sorry for the pointless rambling just getting things clearer in my own head..
Cheers KIM
PS Thankfully people are too polite too complain about a free gift even if it is rubbish so I will just keep giving my knives away. :lol:

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jindydiver
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Re: Some knife questions please.l...

#9 Post by jindydiver » Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:47 pm

You are right about the really hard blades being a pain for some people to sharpen. that is why every knife that leaves my workshop is as sharp as a razor and the owner can bring it back for a birthday as many times and as often as they like, no cost to them.

And yes, some people will never get through working a whole deer without remedial work on their blade, no matter how hard or sharp it is to begin with.
Mick


Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.

Abraham Lincoln

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hazard
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Re: Some knife questions please.l...

#10 Post by hazard » Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:49 pm

. How do you sharpen the knife at home and in the bush.?

I use a steel when required and it serves me well, Though I do have the luxury of having solid carbide rod steels which I believe are better than Diamond steels, but that is my pref, I have heard many arguments to and fro :confused: not sold completely on a diamond steel yet!
At home I use many different stones to get the base edge, but no hard set rule which one.

2.. Do you think it is worth getting a good quality and or custom knife..?

Absolutely there is no comparison to a custom made by an axperienced tradesman! ....but I must also say many factory knives have been worth every cent except the cheap impulse buy knives, they are disgracefull :roll: .

3..Do you consider the Rockwell hardness before you choose a knife and if so do you prefer a hard or soft steel.?

Although i dont have a hardness tester I do like the knife to be soft enough to give it a lick out in the field as i have made quite a few Knives from files and I reckon they are just a bit hard to be practical for the field.

Hazard
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Gringa Bows
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Re: Some knife questions please.l...

#11 Post by Gringa Bows » Sat Nov 12, 2011 7:04 pm

For me its oil stone at home,steel in the scrub........

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bigbob
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Re: Some knife questions please.l...

#12 Post by bigbob » Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:44 pm

Not so much providing any answers to your questions but more about where you dropped the knife. I made a 12'' bowie type knife out of O1 tool steel many years ago and after heat treatment to harden, but before annealing for temper I took a swipe at a bit of heavy wall box tube. It put a cut in the steel but never marked the blade.Imagine how it would have been to try and put an edge on that blade in the hardened state. i think i used about 58 rockwell, but it was a guess as i didnt own the test gear to do the rockwell test . I relied on the temper colours to provide the hardness and that seemed to work ok.
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terryzac
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Re: Some knife questions please.l...

#13 Post by terryzac » Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:22 pm

stone with water and a drop of detergent at home and stone and spit in the field
rather a quality blade (prob why i have a few)
the hardness not so much as the edge shape. hate knives with shoulders

and mate i have seen and handled your work (blody lewis wouldnt let me use it, i think he slept with it for a while) and there is nothing at all rong with it. but if your giving them away

terry

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Re: Some knife questions please.l...

#14 Post by wishsong » Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:10 am

Kim , as a bit of anife buf I won way too many knives , mainly customs ...

1. I tend to sharpen my knives with stones regardless ...

2. there are many fine production knives around , some of which will be admirable preforners for years to come with little cost ... opinel , mora .. and higher end production stuff like ESEE is hard to beat , bang for the buck and great warranties ..... but at heart I love my customs and also the process involved , getting to know theknifemaker etc ...

3. Hard or soft ? Depends . I would usually have a softer steel skinner on me with a harder steel pig/camp knife type elsewhere at hand . If I had to choose one type I'd choose a softer steel for ease of sharpening in the field.

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Re: Some knife questions please.l...

#15 Post by otis.drum » Sat Nov 19, 2011 2:27 pm

1. i sharpen with a stone and steel at home, and have never had to sharpen in field. do carry a small diamond steel for if the need arrises.

2. like to mine that i have made, but would also love a custom. would need to weigh up cost verses that of an off the shelf knife i wanted.

3. i consider the steel, and prefer hard. a good sharpen at home at it shouldn't need touching in field, as long as tusks, teeth, stone and steel don't touch the edge.
...otis...

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perry
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Re: Some knife questions please.l...

#16 Post by perry » Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:21 am

1.. How do you sharpen the knife at home and in the bush.?

Home, larger Oil Stone lubed with Lanotec clamped in my vice followed by a Steel

Bush, small Oil Stone and my small Diamond Steel. Back at Camp the same small stone plus I strop it on the piece of Leather on the back of my Broadhead sharpener [ Bog File screwed onto a piece of wood ] I had a set of cheap Diamond Hones which I quite liked that I did carry in the bush as they where so light. I must replace them with a Quality set of Diamond Hones

2.. Do you think it is worth getting a good quality and or custom knife..?

I can not afford a Custom Knife but my turn will come and I'll commision one. In the mean while I have a thing for old Carbon Steel Knives which I find cheap at Markets etc. I do have a frightenly sharp G96 with a Nessmuk type blade that is made from very hard Stainless, too bloody hard in my view, total Dog of a thing to sharpen if required.

3..Do you consider the Rockwell hardness before you choose a knife and if so do you prefer a hard or soft steel.?

I do understand Rockwall but it is never a deciding factor in my final decision. I look for Balance and comfort in my hand foremost. I like softer easier to sharpen Carbon steels

regards Jacko
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Re: Some knife questions please.l...

#17 Post by Jeffro » Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:51 am

I have a puma bowie 104/rc knife made in germany,im not sure what steel they have but I have never been able to get it shaving sharp.
The best I can get it is when I held the knife on the bench and used the stone to shape the edge then hit it on the diamond steel.
If I use the good quality old F Dick smooth butchers steel on it or a ceramic one it just seems to make it blunt???

Im thinking of buying a strop and some rouge but im confused.
A factory edge on one of these knifes and probably most knifes is a perfect angled flat egde(right at the blade) not concave or convex if you know what I mean.
And from my limited knowledge of knife steel and sharpening etc I assume that when stropping or diamond steeling you are creating a convex edge because of the give in the leather when stropping and the inability to steel at exactly the same angle with every stroke when steeling on the diamond steel?

I have watched a few youtube clips on knife sharpening and they tend to suggest that a convex edge is the best?

How can I get this puma knife to be extra sharp cause im pretty sure its got real hard steel and will keep a good edge.

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jindydiver
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Re: Some knife questions please.l...

#18 Post by jindydiver » Mon Jan 02, 2012 10:07 am

A convex edge is best for two reasons.
The first is because we are all just human and we are not robots, the second is because we use what tools we find best and easiest and we are not using the grinders used to sharpen the knives at the factory so we have to work with what we have.

If you look at a factory edge you will see it is very rough along to bevel, you can easily seee the grind marks. These edges are put on by a machine (or often by hand) grinding those edges against a paper wheel or a massive stone wheel. They do it in one or two quick cuts each side and ship it out. It produces an edge that is ever so finely hollow. The problem for most people is when they get home they are trying to replicate this same edge and it is just not as easy as it seems. Nobody can hand hone a knife and keep the angle so perfect that they are always touching the edge and the heal of the edge bevel at the same pressure, maintaining the exact angle between the two for the length of the blade. You certainly can't replicate the factory angle with your flat stone, it is hollow to begin with and you are flattening it out. Almost all the time the edge is taking the beating and the shoulder isn't, thus making what came as maybe a 25 or 30 degree bevel something like a 40 degree bevel. face it, how often have you sharpened you near new knife and been upset because you can't get it to shave like it did from the factory :wink:

You can do better, you just have to accept that your knife isn't new any more and you need to remove steel. You can buy a Lansky or similar and keep your shoulder looking fine, but still not factory new, and persist with the idea of a perfectly flat final bevel. This is where us not being robots comes in. If you use a steel on your knife later (you know you will) the shoulder will force you to angle the blade exactly, either you will be steeling the shoulder, or you will be steeling the edge, and we know which will give up material first, the edge. As soon as you put the steel to use you end up with a courser angle to your edge.

Or you can ditch the factory edge right from the start. Take the shoulder off so there isn't a sharp transition from grind to edge bevel. This gives you some fudge room to allow you to be imprecise with your sharpening and not keep the exact same angle all the way through the sharpening of your blade, you just have to think about how much pressure you put in to the edge.
Ditch the shoulder, use a strop and watch what you thought was an okay blade become a hair poppingly sharp blade.
Last edited by jindydiver on Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Mick


Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.

Abraham Lincoln

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Jeffro
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Re: Some knife questions please.l...

#19 Post by Jeffro » Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:54 am

Thanks for that Jindy,I was hoping i'd get a response from you.

I have not removed the shoulder but I understand what your talking about.
I got a bit of wood and some suede from a welding apron and glued it on.Then I applied some of the buffing stick to it and have got much better results already.
heres a photo of it.
Image

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Jeffro
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Re: Some knife questions please.l...

#20 Post by Jeffro » Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:58 am

I think ill let the shoulder work itself off over time as opposed to removing it now but the strop is definitely the way to go.
I tried it on a broadhed that I had sharpened by the razors edge plus butchers steel combo and they definitely come out razor sharp with that method.Paul Mayall showed me it by running the broadhed once each side backwards at the base of the steel at a sharp angle after they come off the razors edge file.
Anyway the strop seems to bring them up even better.
Do you think that the buffing compound is the right stuff or is there better ones?
Jeff

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jindydiver
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Re: Some knife questions please.l...

#21 Post by jindydiver » Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:25 am

I use the green stick, it is a little courser, but the white will do the job just as well.
You can get the razor edge and have a long lasting bevel if you are careful how you use your strop. If your leather is soft and has a little give you push the whole grind into the strop (flat) and then drag the knife. This will allow the strop to only caress the edge and not wear it too much. The less shoulder the edge has the less pressure you have to put in to it. It is as much art as anything you do with knives and you have to start doing it to learn it.
Mick


Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.

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